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#181 dude

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 02:53 PM

I'd rather see the guys play some at the MLB level before deciding that they are a major piece of the future plan. You know more after seeing them play that you did before.

Some guy's you think you have a high confidence in before they get to that level, but other guys are more volatile.

 

I got it, but 1 year will never give you that with any confidence.



#182 Mackus

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 03:08 PM


I got it, but 1 year will never give you that with any confidence.

It'll give you a lot more confidence in your evaluation than just after A+.

#183 BSLRobShields

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 03:10 PM

...or you wind up losing value because you lack options and other teams exploit that in their consideration.

You guys are talking about years, not months.

We aren't going to know anything about Martin for years if even then. When did we really know anything about Schoop? Do we now?

Martin is relatively known. The only difference is the adjustment he has made because of his eye sight.

He will get the first chance. You will know enough after this year whether he has a chance or not.

Sure, guys can sometimes need more than 1 year but these guys are all at ages where there is only so much development left in their games.

There is zero wrong with having 3 guys like this. It doesn’t hurt you in any way whatsoever.

Now, where we agree is that you need to evaluate and move on quickly. Maybe one of them is really a second basemen? Maybe one of them needs to be an OFer? Maybe they don’t end up being that good at all. You need to figure that out but you have time and literally have options to figure things out with them. You would have about a 2-3 year window to decide these things.
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#184 BSLRobShields

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 03:24 PM

So this comment backs out to the original thread a little more, but would be an example of what I'm discussing.

I understand part of this will be hard for people to separate, but in the context of discussion (I'm happy to talk about the other things that go into doing it but would like to streamline this thought to the alignment I'm suggesting).

Let's look at the Chicago teams and their current MI situations. WhiteSox rumored to be interested in Sanchez and given the International flavor of their projected team, that's reasonable. Tim Anderson has 2+ years of service so they may be considering some options given his <.700 OPS the last 2 years so if it took Sanchez a year+ in the minors to acclimate, whatever, you've probably had enough look at Anderson after 2019/20 (2-3 years of control remaining, maybe you can trade him).

Addison Russell is likely reasonably available and I'd like to just leave that as a fact and not turn this into a DV discussion. The Cubs have also talked about being at their payroll limit and discussed options for moving Zobrist to free up some payroll.

What if you put something together with both teams that looked like....

CWS gets Yusniel Diaz, Ben Zobrist, IFA Pool (for Sanchez)
CHC gets Martin, Blake Rutherford
BAL gets Russell, Madrigal

WhiteSox add Diaz to RF at AAA to go with Eloy Jiminez (LF) and Luis Robert (CF). Use Zobrist short-term and maybe flip him at the deadline for something. Add Sanchez as a SS option behind Anderson.

Cubs free up payroll and add some cost controlled talent to free up other opportunities.

Orioles add Russell now and pair Madrigal at A+ with OSU keystone partner Grenier. (If you draft Rutschman #1, you can see the Plan..."blackened Duck L'orange" forming)

In a separate deal, you wind up with Dee Gordon (easy).

I'd rather use Russell-Gordon at SS-2B for 2 years of 'win now' (I understand we don't want to win) while you develop Grenier-Madrigal for 2021 (win later).

This assumes a few things:

1). That Sanchez will sign with the WS.

2). That the WS would value Díaz over Madrigal (I would be surprised if they would)

3). That the WS want an aging, expensive player in Zobrist.

4) That the Os can get Gordon for nothing and even want to take on his contract after some recently bad offensive years.

I can see where you are going but I think the WS would much at this deal and the Os wouldn’t consider it.

If you want to try something and you value Madrigal more than Díaz (and the WS feel Sanchez will go there), you just offer Díaz and slot money for Madrigal.

And you know that little caveat about russell that you didn’t want to discuss...well it’s still there and considering you are the guy who is so obsessed with off field stuff and how it can help a team, I would think you would get how that could be an issue.

I do believe Russell could be had and I’m sure the Cubs would easily get rid of Zobrist but I don’t see this deal as realistic.

On top of all of that, you’re point is to try and make the Os a better team. Adding Russell and Gordon likely makes us better than a Martin/Villar combo. But how much better? How many wins did you just add? Gordon has been worth less than 1 win 2 of the last 3 years. Outside of his career high 5 WAR season, he hasn’t been that good. On top of that, Gordon is owed 27.5M the next 2 seasons. Russell is still young and can still be good but he hasn’t been that good as of late either. He is owed 4.3M this year.

So, you have just added a lot of payroll for guys who haven’t been that good lately. Now, change of scenery, better hitters park, maybe they get better. But you are acting like it’s a sure thing. Villar has actually been better than both of them recently.
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#185 russsnyder

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 04:23 PM

Why wouldn't you want all 3? They very likely will play this season at different levels.

Converting the international bonus into something else useful is a fine idea, but may be an extra step than we need to take. Just sign Sanchez. We still need a SS for the future even with Martin and Grenier in house and adding him makes us more likely to find one.


I agree that it would be great for the organization to have all three. First, internal competition generally brings out the best. More importantly, who knows how and when these guys are going to develop?




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