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Jonathan Villar


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#21 russsnyder

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:13 PM

?

 

 Mackus, I am making a joke about Machado and Schoop being upset after Manny was traded.

 

 I never said it was a good one. 



#22 russsnyder

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:15 PM

I hope Villar can recapture 2016, but then I hoped the same thing about Davis and Tillman.

 

    That would be great if he could recapture his form of 2016.

 

     Hopefully, his fall wont be as hard and as swift as Davis and Tillman. 



#23 weird-O

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:01 AM

I can't figure out why the Brewers traded for Schoop, when he doesn't offer much more than Villar was giving them. JS has 2 seasons where he put up much better power numbers. But he doesn't appear to be a defensive upgrade over JV. If anything, JV looks like the better defender. Milwaukee is essentially paying $6M more for a the possibility of a few more RBI 


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#24 The Epic

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:04 AM

I didn't realize that Schoop was struggling so bad. Yikes.



#25 Mackus

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:15 AM

I can't figure out why the Brewers traded for Schoop, when he doesn't offer much more than Villar was giving them. JS has 2 seasons where he put up much better power numbers. But he doesn't appear to be a defensive upgrade over JV. If anything, JV looks like the better defender. Milwaukee is essentially paying $6M more for a the possibility of a few more RBI

Schoop offers a ton more than Villar was giving the Brewers. Defense is comparable, various scouts/analysts would consider one to be slightly better than the other, it depends on what metric you like to look at and what skills you look for. Schoop has had the much better bat recently even including his awful start to '18. Villar has an 80 OPS+ since the start of '17, Schoop is at 107 (including Schoop's inept month post-trade and Villar's good month). That is a substantial upgrade offensively, and that's why Milwaukee was paying for. If you go back and look at the last 3 years, then Villar's great '16 comes into play, but Schoop still comes out substantially ahead in OPS+ 104 to 97. And Milwaukee obviously was no longer considering Villar's great '16, since they were so eager to dump him.

Hopefully for the Orioles Villar will be able to bounce back and play closer to how he did in '16. If he does, that's a great asset that we would've acquired as a throw-in to a trade. But Villar was on pace to be non-tendered by the Brewers before the trade. He was not giving them what he has given us over the past three weeks. Nor were the Brewers expecting to get the horrendous slump that Schoop has given them since the trade.

#26 bnickle

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:23 AM

I just dont like the return on Schoop but the Os still sold relatively high on him. I thought last year was likely a career year for Jon. He has the chance to hit 30 HRs again in his career but the batting avg and obp numbers will likely never be matched. Plus he should probably move to 3b soon.

#27 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:44 AM

Schoop should have been dealt in the offseason.  They didn't learn from the Manny situation.  


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#28 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:24 PM

Be pretty funny if Schoop did clear waivers and there isn't even any interest in him. 



#29 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:46 PM

I think you can make a case that the value was pretty similar at the time of the trade. For whatever reason UZR punishes Villar quite a bit. DRS is much more friendly. Normaiized for AB's/playaing time the career rWAR value is only down about 1.8 WAR (rough calculation) from Schoop's. Then you take into account other factors which may not be as favorable to Villar: Less regular playing time, less regular playing time at his strongest position, bouncing around at different positions and more/recent injuries. You could look at Villar's versatility as being more valuable but that's not always necessarily reflected in WAR value.

Really cones down to how much you value Schoop's power potential. Admittedly i'ts pretty intriguing, especially considering 2017. Whatever the motives were, the deal is the deal and I thin we did pretty well. I'm just not sure we were getting much for Schoop considering his flaws, his entire body of work and the year he was having. Thankfully for that period in July before the deadline.

#30 Mackus

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:00 PM

I'd put a waiver claim in on Schoop!



#31 Crouseman

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 04:56 PM

Schoop should have been dealt in the offseason.  They didn't learn from the Manny situation.  

Brewers are already having buyers remorse.  Reported that they might non tender or trade him.  Schoops value is dropping like a rock. 



#32 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 05:46 PM

Reported that they might non tender or trade him.


Link?

#33 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 06:14 PM

Link?

Don't have a link but Thorne said on the broadcast the other day that Brewers were looking to "flip him". 



#34 Crouseman

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 09:05 PM

Link?

https://www.brewcrew...ason-per-report


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#35 Crouseman

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 09:08 PM

Check out the comments at the bottom of the article. Brewer fans think they got swindled in this deal. Really funny. A lot of folks on this side thought we got robbed.

#36 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 09:16 PM

Check out the comments at the bottom of the article. Brewer fans think they got swindled in this deal. Really funny. A lot of folks on this side thought we got robbed.

It is fumy to hear both sides of a trade. 



#37 bnickle

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 09:20 PM

No one thought we got robbed. That said value wasnt maximized and thats evident in the significant lowering of our asking price in the last day or two. DD slashed salary and sold low. And we got nothing back in this deal as far as prospects go. Carmona is a lottery ticket. Ortiz is a fat AAAA starter



#38 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 10:55 PM

Maybe we can claim Schoop off of waivers and hope for that big haul next year. 



#39 Crouseman

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 06:51 AM

No one thought we got robbed. That said value wasnt maximized and thats evident in the significant lowering of our asking price in the last day or two. DD slashed salary and sold low. And we got nothing back in this deal as far as prospects go. Carmona is a lottery ticket. Ortiz is a fat AAAA starter

LOL!!!  There sure was a lot of pissing and moaning on the Schoop deal.  There were some who said we got virtually nothing back of value.  Which is what you just said. Ok, you didn't say robbed.  But whats the difference between robbed and getting no value back??



#40 Mackus

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 07:47 AM

Ortiz is a fat AAAA starter

 

He's only made 3 starts at AAA.  Lets see what he does before burying him.  Not sure who you got your scouting report from, but I'm skeptical that his velocity is a concern (different than saying it wasn't down that night your guy saw him pitch).  I've read as much as I can find about him and nothing I've seen suggests he was dropping in velocity before the trade and its been fine in the past.  Not overwhelming, but being able to maintain velocity deep into games (perhaps due to his large frame) has been noted as a plus for him.






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