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NBA 2018-19 General Talk (Toronto Wins Championship!)


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#841 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 06:18 AM


Strong night for the Splash Brothers, but Kawhi was pretty off until that great late stretch. I think Toronto wins this, but it would be a hell of a story if Golden State perseveres.

Why? They are still way more talented even without KD. I won't be buying that narrative. But agree that Toronto wins anyway. Great series.
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"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#842 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 06:55 AM

This Warriors team isn’t way more talented.

Maybe if Cousins was his normal self but he’s not...he’s a shell of the player he was.
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#843 Mike B

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 07:34 AM

Why? They are still way more talented even without KD. I won't be buying that narrative. But agree that Toronto wins anyway. Great series.

IMO, as it is now Toronto is the better team.

 

The Warriors still have Steph, Klay and Green, but everything else is hurt.

 

KD is out, with an Achilles injury, Looney, Cousins and Iggy are all playing hurt. 

 

GS is playing with heart, but they are out gunned.


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#844 mweb08

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:13 AM

Why? They are still way more talented even without KD. I won't be buying that narrative. But agree that Toronto wins anyway. Great series.


They aren't way more talented. They aren't even more talented at all. Maybe if Cousins was his former self, but that's clearly not the case. Toronto is a really good team.

#845 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:16 AM

I just disagree. Toronto is playing great, but GS even without Durant is extensively more talented than Toronto. Just look at the rosters. I'm not coining a GS win a "miracle" when they were building towards a dynasty before KD got there... or Cousins.


@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#846 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:18 AM

I just disagree. Toronto is playing great, but GS even without Durant is extensively more talented than Toronto. Just look at the rosters. I'm not coining a GS win a "miracle" when they were building towards a dynasty before KD got there... or Cousins.


This isn’t close to the same team they were before KD though.

Iggy is older...Livingston is older. The bench isn’t as good.

Essentially what you are saying is that the combined talented of Klay, Steph and Green are more talented than all of Toronto. That just isn’t true especially since Toronto has the best player in basketball on their team.
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#847 The Epic

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:22 AM

There's going to be a 30-For-30 made about this game. Just so rich with storylines here. 

 

The real loser here: The New York Knicks. So much for getting KD. LOL



#848 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:33 AM

From the lottery playing out the way it did, to this injury, the Knicks have had their dreams shattered of an over night fix. 


@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#849 mweb08

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:40 AM

I just disagree. Toronto is playing great, but GS even without Durant is extensively more talented than Toronto. Just look at the rosters. I'm not coining a GS win a "miracle" when they were building towards a dynasty before KD got there... or Cousins.


Yeah, I've looked at the rosters. This isn't 3 on 3. Toronto is vastly better 4-8.

#850 mweb08

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:41 AM

There's going to be a 30-For-30 made about this game. Just so rich with storylines here.

The real loser here: The New York Knicks. So much for getting KD. LOL


He may still go there, and still for the max.

#851 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:44 AM

Yeah, I've looked at the rosters. This isn't 3 on 3. Toronto is vastly better 4-8.

Cute. And a little sassy. I like it. But 1-3 is WAY more important than 4-8. I just don't buy it. Kawhi is an absolute beast though, and if not for him, they aren't even in the playoffs most likely. 


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"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#852 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:45 AM

There's going to be a 30-For-30 made about this game. Just so rich with storylines here. 
 
The real loser here: The New York Knicks. So much for getting KD. LOL


They can still sign him...just don’t get him for next year.

Not like they were going to win the title in 2020 with him.
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#853 mweb08

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:53 AM

Cute. And a little sassy. I like it. But 1-3 is WAY more important than 4-8. I just don't buy it. Kawhi is an absolute beast though, and if not for him, they aren't even in the playoffs most likely.


This team would be in the playoffs without Kawhi. They were 17-5 without him this season.

The Warriors as is only have 2 good scoring options, which is kinda a problem. Draymond is a great overall player, but ideally he's on the court with 3-4 good scorers rather than 1-2.

#854 mweb08

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:37 AM

LeBron is probably wishing that the bad playoff injury luck for the Warriors had occurred earlier.

#855 PD24

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:31 AM

GS has been over-rated all year in the sense that they are incredibly top heavy. Which is fine if everyone is healthy and playing full minutes and all in sync at the same time.

 

As much as the NBA is a star league, often times it is the role players that decide the series. Toronto has really, really good role players who I hesitate to even call role players. Tor has Kawhi, Pascal, Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka, Green, Van Vleet who are all very functional players who can all get 20+ any given night.

 

GS has 3 of those guys. Draymond Green as the 4th, as good as he is, is only so good because he can be a fasciliate between 3 other superstars. That's very valuable, not knocking him, but when he becomes a scoring option it's not going to go well.

 

Iggy is a great defender and he can make a clutch shot, but other than that during the course of the game he is relatively worthless on offense these days. Livingston can make 1-2 13 footers a game and play great D, other than that, he is more worthless than Iggy on offense.

 

Cousins is clearly not himself yet and is a complete defensive liability in the pick n roll.

 

GS has literally no one else that you can count on to score off the bench. No one. No one is even playable in this series really besides Quinn Cook in very very short minutes. 

 

Iggy and Livingston aging the way they have has really hurt the depth because they are getting paid to perform but they're not those players anymore over the course of an entire series. They still have value in spots, such as defensively in the final possession last night, but over the course of the game they can't do anything. 


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#856 PD24

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

Maybe this changes things. It seemed extremely likely that he was gone before this, though.

 

At one point the Knicks were like -300 to sign him which makes me think the same, but keep in mind we haven't heard from KD himself. I think the only reason he would have wanted to leave was for legacy purposes, but I think this series has definitely changed that. He'll be way more loved in GS now and it's also very clear that without KD, they would not be able to beat a Raptors team that while very good, not really the caliber of recent championship teams IMO.

 

Crazy what world we live in because literally the only reason he would likely have wanted to leave is because of what other people think of him. I do get it, and when you're that good legacy has to be considered, but at what point can a human just do what he wants and enjoy himself for a living? GS is a model franchise from Lacob, Myers, Kerr, and having Curry and Thompson who are perhaps the 2 most unselfish superstars in the league. Fans, new arena, location...all the reasons he went there, nothing has changed. 

 

But aside from all that, this definitely changes the legacy factor and I think if he stays in GS long-term he'll widely be considered to be the best player on the team and the main reason they continue to win championships if they do. 


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#857 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:36 AM

At one point the Knicks were like -300 to sign him which makes me think the same, but keep in mind we haven't heard from KD himself. I think the only reason he would have wanted to leave was for legacy purposes, but I think this series has definitely changed that. He'll be way more loved in GS now and it's also very clear that without KD, they would not be able to beat a Raptors team that while very good, not really the caliber of recent championship teams IMO.

 

Crazy what world we live in because literally the only reason he would likely have wanted to leave is because of what other people think of him. I do get it, and when you're that good legacy has to be considered, but at what point can a human just do what he wants and enjoy himself for a living? GS is a model franchise from Lacob, Myers, Kerr, and having Curry and Thompson who are perhaps the 2 most unselfish superstars in the league. Fans, new arena, location...all the reasons he went there, nothing has changed. 

 

But aside from all that, this definitely changes the legacy factor and I think if he stays in GS long-term he'll widely be considered to be the best player on the team and the main reason they continue to win championships if they do. 

Which also sounds like the reason he played last night.


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#858 mweb08

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:48 AM

At one point the Knicks were like -300 to sign him which makes me think the same, but keep in mind we haven't heard from KD himself. I think the only reason he would have wanted to leave was for legacy purposes, but I think this series has definitely changed that. He'll be way more loved in GS now and it's also very clear that without KD, they would not be able to beat a Raptors team that while very good, not really the caliber of recent championship teams IMO.

Crazy what world we live in because literally the only reason he would likely have wanted to leave is because of what other people think of him. I do get it, and when you're that good legacy has to be considered, but at what point can a human just do what he wants and enjoy himself for a living? GS is a model franchise from Lacob, Myers, Kerr, and having Curry and Thompson who are perhaps the 2 most unselfish superstars in the league. Fans, new arena, location...all the reasons he went there, nothing has changed.

But aside from all that, this definitely changes the legacy factor and I think if he stays in GS long-term he'll widely be considered to be the best player on the team and the main reason they continue to win championships if they do.


Curry has been at least as valuable as Durant imo.

I think Durant potentially wanted to leave for a new and greater challenge, plus to go to NYC. However, I would also think that perception and legacy play a role as you mention.

#859 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 11:59 AM

Golden State's role players would be 'better' if Durant was available and Cousins was Cousins. 



#860 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:48 PM

ESPN: Can the Warriors pull off this epic comeback without Kevin Durant?

https://www.espn.com...ck-kevin-durant






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