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#161 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:32 AM

One thing I saw Jeff Goodman say is “I wonder how much the NCAA spent on this”.

What’s funny is that it sounds like the case can’t be made because of other student involvement, not because the program is clean.

That’s the lesson to learn from this..get other students involved and you should be fine!

Seems like that's exactly it. 

 

And if the NCAA indeed knew this all along like Bilas said above, why spend so much time and money on it?


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#162 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:38 AM

Seems like that's exactly it.

And if the NCAA indeed knew this all along like Bilas said above, why spend so much time and money on it?


2 different ESPN writers:

In short: The UNC Department of African and Afro-American Studies allowed thousands of paper courses to benefit all students that took them; therefore the NCAA could not rule that violations occurred. Zero sanctions.

While the alleged "sham" courses in the African-American Studies department at North Carolina took center stage for nearly four years, the NCAA's main claim against UNC was that it had offered student-athletes impermissible "extra" benefits through these classes.



These 2 things were never different at any point during this investigation. It took you 3.5 years, who knows how much money and hurt the program itself (in terms of recruiting, although it didn’t effect them immediately) for something you knew you couldn’t prove?

I wonder if UNC can sue the NCAA? Claim it hurts the long term of the program because they missed out on recruits and things like that?
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#163 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:43 AM

2 different ESPN writers:

In short: The UNC Department of African and Afro-American Studies allowed thousands of paper courses to benefit all students that took them; therefore the NCAA could not rule that violations occurred. Zero sanctions.

While the alleged "sham" courses in the African-American Studies department at North Carolina took center stage for nearly four years, the NCAA's main claim against UNC was that it had offered student-athletes impermissible "extra" benefits through these classes.



These 2 things were never different at any point during this investigation. It took you 3.5 years, who knows how much money and hurt the program itself (in terms of recruiting, although it didn’t effect them immediately) for something you knew you couldn’t prove?

I wonder if UNC can sue the NCAA? Claim it hurts the long term of the program because they missed out on recruits and things like that?

It really didn't end up hurting them at all, let's be honest. Two straight Final Fours and a National Title, with mostly 4 year guys....Hell, maybe it was a blessing in disguise..

 

They'll likely now be able again  to recruit one and done types, we'll see how things change moving forward, but it's hard to argue against the success of the Berry/Meeks/Brice Johnson/Marcus Paige/Isiah Hicks/ Justin Jackson core, all but Justin stayed 4 years, and had the aforementioned success. 


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#164 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:51 AM

It really didn't end up hurting them at all, let's be honest. Two straight Final Fours and a National Title, with mostly 4 year guys....Hell, maybe it was a blessing in disguise..

They'll likely now be able again to recruit one and done types, we'll see how things change moving forward, but it's hard to argue against the success of the Berry/Meeks/Brice Johnson/Marcus Paige/Isiah Hicks/ Justin Jackson core, all but Justin stayed 4 years, and had the aforementioned success.


No doubt...I’m just thinking going forward over the next 2-3 years.

Otoh, hard to prove you would have gotten player X if not for the investigation.
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#165 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:54 AM

No doubt...I’m just thinking going forward over the next 2-3 years.

Otoh, hard to prove you would have gotten player X if not for the investigation.

They have one top 15 guy for next year already, plus 2 more top 30 guys..i know they're in on a few others including Zion Williamson, who's regarded as a top 3 guy. 

 

That's fair, but it seemed all of the bigger names the last few years weren't even considering North Carolina. Besides Kevin Knox, I can't think of one to be honest. 


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#166 The Epic

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:57 AM

They have one top 15 guy for next year already, plus 2 more top 30 guys..i know they're in on a few others including Zion Williamson, who's regarded as a top 3 guy. 

 

That's fair, but it seemed all of the bigger names the last few years weren't even considering North Carolina. Besides Kevin Knox, I can't think of one to be honest. 

 

There was one big recruit that specifically said that he didn't go to UNC because of the investigation, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was. 



#167 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:58 AM

There was one big recruit that specifically said that he didn't go to UNC because of the investigation, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was.


Yes I remember that...and I think he ended up at Duke. But I also can’t remember who said that.
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#168 The Epic

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:59 AM

There was one big recruit that specifically said that he didn't go to UNC because of the investigation, but I can't for the life of me remember who it was. 

 

I was thinking of Brandon Ingram. 



#169 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 10:59 AM

I was thinking of Brandon Ingram.


Yep..that’s it
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#170 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:01 AM

Giles perhaps? A North Carolina guy if I remember correctly.

 

Doesn't really matter I guess. 

 

I never really thought any banners were coming down or anything, but I'm glad I don't have to hear about it anymore, that's for sure. 


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#171 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 01:06 PM

SI: The NCAA Punishing UNC Would've Been Wrong

 

The Ringer: UNC Was Always Going to Get Off in the NCAA’s “Paper Class” Investigation



#172 The Epic

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 08:02 PM

It was implied, but I'll just straight-up say it...

 

...the fact that UNC was probably being watched heavily during the course of this investigation, and still managed to recruit and coach a team that went to the NCAA title game two years in a row, winning once...that's all on Roy. That's boss-level leadership.



#173 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 11:59 AM

It was implied, but I'll just straight-up say it...

 

...the fact that UNC was probably being watched heavily during the coarse of this investigation, and still managed to recruit and coach a team that went to the NCAA title game two years in a row, winning once...that's all on Roy. That's boss-level leadership.

Or it showed no one cared...which very few probably did.

 

I mean, its not like they needed to concentrate on class!


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#174 The Epic

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:28 PM

Or it showed no one cared...which very few probably did.

 

I mean, its not like they needed to concentrate on class!

 

There's no reason to think that they spent so much money on this investigation for the NCAA not to keep a close eye on whether any other bullcrap was still happening...especially when it looked like (for a while, at least) they they were doing all they could to pin something on the school. I'm not saying you CAN'T be that brazen, but that would be really, really dumb on UNC's part to do so. 

 

Either way, gotta coach the team you got. 



#175 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:33 PM

There's no reason to think that they spent so much money on this investigation for the NCAA not to keep a close eye on whether any other bullcrap was still happening...especially when it looked like (for a while, at least) they they were doing all they could to pin something on the school. I'm not saying you CAN'T be that brazen, but that would be really, really dumb on UNC's part to do so. 

 

Either way, gotta coach the team you got. 

 

I'm not naive enough to believe what happened at UNC doesn't happen elsewhere.... but it's still embarrassing what happened there. Should the banners have come down, and suspensions been handed out? Guess the general take is no, and that's fine. 



#176 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:05 PM

I'm not naive enough to believe what happened at UNC doesn't happen elsewhere.... but it's still embarrassing what happened there. Should the banners have come down, and suspensions been handed out? Guess the general take is no, and that's fine. 

Whats funny is that they made the university look terrible to make sure the basketball team ended up ok.


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#177 The Epic

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:49 PM

Whats funny is that they made the university look terrible to make sure the basketball team ended up ok.

 

And they sure took a tumble. A pretty significant one in the school rankings, from 30 (in 2011) to...30 (in 2018's release). Fifth ranked public university. You can call it a bad look all you want, because a program was creating bird classes (which got ended, and which look bad, and which are done everywhere), doesn't mean that it's happening to people that go there for a legitimate education. The program got ended and the school is under probation. Still, with this decision looming and everything in plain sight, more people applied to UNC last year than ever before. 

 

This will be an embarrassment in the same way that getting toilet paper stuck on your shoe is an embarrassment.

 

http://publicunivers...ties-2010-1017/

 

https://www.usnews.c...ties/top-public



#178 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:57 PM

And they sure took a tumble. A pretty significant one in the school rankings, from 30 (in 2011) to...30 (in 2018's release). Fifth ranked public university. You can call it a bad look all you want, because a program was creating bird classes (which got ended, and which look bad, and which are done everywhere), doesn't mean that it's happening to people that go there for a legitimate education. The program got ended and the school is under probation. Still, with this decision looming and everything in plain sight, more people applied to UNC last year than ever before. 

 

This will be an embarrassment in the same way that getting toilet paper stuck on your shoe is an embarrassment.

 

http://publicunivers...ties-2010-1017/

 

https://www.usnews.c...ties/top-public

It may not matter in the "standings"...but they took a big PR hit.  

 

Again, it probably doesn't matter but they definitely threw the university under the bus and its a bad look.


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#179 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 03:11 PM

And they sure took a tumble. A pretty significant one in the school rankings, from 30 (in 2011) to...30 (in 2018's release). Fifth ranked public university. You can call it a bad look all you want, because a program was creating bird classes (which got ended, and which look bad, and which are done everywhere), doesn't mean that it's happening to people that go there for a legitimate education. The program got ended and the school is under probation. Still, with this decision looming and everything in plain sight, more people applied to UNC last year than ever before. 

 

This will be an embarrassment in the same way that getting toilet paper stuck on your shoe is an embarrassment.

 

http://publicunivers...ties-2010-1017/

 

https://www.usnews.c...ties/top-public

 

 

I know you have love for the Alma Mater.  I respect Chapel Hill.  Everyone says it's a beautiful campus, know the education is quality.  My sis-in-law went there for post-grad. 

But no, this isn't like toilet paper on the shoe.  This wasn't some made-up witch hunt.  This was a failure up and down the University.

 

You shouldn't be mad at those who were 'persecuting' you, or feel like the school is vindicated.  You should be mad at the failure of leadership that had to have existed. 



#180 The Epic

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 03:20 PM

I know you have love for the Alma Mater.  I respect Chapel Hill.  Everyone says it's a beautiful campus, know the education is quality.  My sis-in-law went there for post-grad. 

But no, this isn't like toilet paper on the shoe.  This wasn't some made-up witch hunt.  This was a failure up and down the University.

 

You shouldn't be mad at those who were 'persecuting' you, or feel like the school is vindicated.  You should be mad at the failure of leadership that had to have existed. 

 

By "toilet paper on the shoe," I mean that it'll go away with no ill after-effects. 

 

I'm not gonna act like I'm not biased, but I don't feel any sort of vindication, other than it was pretty clear that this wasn't going to stick from an NCAA POV. In addition, I'm not mad at anyone. What I'm saying is that, ultimately (and I think I said this previously), it's not going to change the perception of people that graduated from the school for educational purposes, or the perception of the people who want to apply...and even if it did, it'd be a very small amount. If this was proven to happen at University X, and I was interviewing someone from there, I wouldn't think less of them than I had before the investigation. I'd throw some jokes at them, but really...that's it. 


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