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Current Turgeon Thoughts


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#21 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 01:24 PM

Fire Turgeon and make Williams the interim coach. Figure it out next year.

Maybe promote Williams to AD as an alternative to a lucrative contract.


That I could get behind ;)

#22 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 01:34 PM

Well... I could get behind Gary if he wanted it, and they'd commit to him for the duration of Turgeons contract.

#23 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 01:47 PM

InsideMDSports: Turgeon Not Pleased About Big Ten Scheduling Changes

 

“I don’t like it. I wanted it to stay at 18 games,” Turgeon said. “They know I don’t like it. They’re probably going to say something to me for saying it out loud right now. It’s hard enough, 18 league games is tough, 20 makes it tougher.

 

Telling.


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#24 Mackus

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 01:53 PM

I don't think the University can easily afford to fire him unless Kevin Plank comes to them and says he'll pay most of the remaining contract.

 

I do think the University should feel they are backed into a corner and have no other choice but to suck it up and take the massive burden that firing him would be financially.  His job performance is bad enough that it's worth sacrificing elsewhere to get him gone, IMO. 



#25 Mike B

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

Fire Turgeon and make Williams the interim coach.  Figure it out next year.

 

Maybe promote Williams to AD as an alternative to a lucrative contract.

I would love having Gary back, but Gary is 72 and probably has little interest in coaching.

 

He sees this years team and the injuries, and even if he started today, the results would not be very good.

 

I don't think Turgeon is going anywhere.  I really don't like the way he plays, and never have, but I think all the gum beating about firing him, is pointless.


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#26 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:08 PM

There is no way the school can’t afford to fire him if they want to.
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#27 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:13 PM

I would love having Gary back, but Gary is 72 and probably has little interest in coaching.

 

 

It would only be for two months, then you have the new coach take over once the season ends. But I think to convince Gary to do it he would also have to be completely on board with firing Turgeon midseason. He's purposely stayed away from commenting much on the program since he retired, which I think was a good thing, but it also makes it hard to say where he really stands on Turgeon and the current state of things.



#28 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:21 PM

InsideMDSports: Turgeon Not Pleased About Big Ten Scheduling Changes

 

 

Telling.

Sounds like Buck. "Baseball is hard."  


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#29 Mackus

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:23 PM

http://www.baltimore...0707-story.html

 

No idea how accurate, but reportedly the athletics department broke even in 2015-2016.  Football went to a bowl the next year, but basketball only played one NCAA tourney game instead of 3, not sure how much of an impact either would make on 2016-2017 revenue.  Both football and basketball are worse in 2017-2018 than they were in '16-17. 

 

I think it's very likely that the University would really struggle to pay the $3-3.5M a year that it would cost to fire all the basketball coaches and then go out and hire a new staff for similar or more money.  I think they probably could do so if they had to, such as if Turgeon did something awful that was short of being able to fire him for cause but they felt obligated to get rid of him.  But I think things on the court would have to get a lot more dire for them to even considering making a change due to the severe costs associated with that.  Performance probably has little to do with the decision, it'll be a financial choice.  If the program is losing money, then they might be incline to make a move and hope to get back in the black. 



#30 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:24 PM

InsideMDSports: Turgeon Not Pleased About Big Ten Scheduling Changes

 

 

Telling.

 

Of course he doesn't like it -- adding two league games means two more losses instead of two wins against garbage teams. 


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#31 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:25 PM

I don't think the University can easily afford to fire him unless Kevin Plank comes to them and says he'll pay most of the remaining contract.

 

I do think the University should feel they are backed into a corner and have no other choice but to suck it up and take the massive burden that firing him would be financially.  His job performance is bad enough that it's worth sacrificing elsewhere to get him gone, IMO. 

You don't think they could hire a young coach for $1M per, while paying Turgeon's $2.5M per? The school can afford $2.5M but not $3.5M per? Come on man. 


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#32 Mackus

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

You don't think they could hire a young coach for $1M per, while paying Turgeon's $2.5M per? The school can afford $2.5M but not $3.5M per? Come on man. 

 

I'm not sure what young coach you get for $1M.  Apparently Chris Collins is the lowest paid coach in the Big 10 currently at $1.34M.  If you're gonna fire Turgeon, you're gonna want a good, established coach, IMO.  Someone who will cost $2-4M a year.  I'd target Chris Mack.

 

And you also have to pay the staff.  I doubt Turgeon's assistants have contracts for as long as he does, but yu still need to cover whatever is left.  And each assistant makes at least $250k, plus the lower level staff proabably in the $50-150k range.

 

I think the margins are very narrow right now for the athletic department.  They likely can't make a move that is going to push them into the red.  Remember this isn't a pro team with an owner who can just choose to operate at a loss if he decides to.

 

The only way I think they decide to fire Turgeon in the near future is if Plank or some other rich donor agrees to cover the costs.



#33 Mackus

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:37 PM

Turgeon's contract stipulates that the University has to pay half of what he's owed up front, then the remainder over time.  So they'd have to fork over $6.375M right away to fire him after this season (half of his $2.55M salary x 5 more years remaining).



#34 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:43 PM

http://www.baltimore...0707-story.html

 

No idea how accurate, but reportedly the athletics department broke even in 2015-2016.  Football went to a bowl the next year, but basketball only played one NCAA tourney game instead of 3, not sure how much of an impact either would make on 2016-2017 revenue.  Both football and basketball are worse in 2017-2018 than they were in '16-17. 

 

I think it's very likely that the University would really struggle to pay the $3-3.5M a year that it would cost to fire all the basketball coaches and then go out and hire a new staff for similar or more money.  I think they probably could do so if they had to, such as if Turgeon did something awful that was short of being able to fire him for cause but they felt obligated to get rid of him.  But I think things on the court would have to get a lot more dire for them to even considering making a change due to the severe costs associated with that.  Performance probably has little to do with the decision, it'll be a financial choice.  If the program is losing money, then they might be incline to make a move and hope to get back in the black. 

Bonnie Bernstein did not age well. :)

 

Anyway, when they say $15.6M of the expenses are scholarships, is that a little misleading? It's not money they're spending, it's just money they didn't bring in by charging those students for tuition. 

 

If I decide in my business to give away $100 in cupcakes as a "donation", pretty much a scholarship, a free product, I don't put on the books that I spent $100 on cupcakes. My bank account doesn't say -$100 for that transaction. It's just $100 I didn't receive that I could have for charging someone for the same.

 

Lets be real here. Do we really expect an institution like this, any one like this, to say they did more than break even? If they reported that they profited $50M last year, then they don't have a leg to stand on with not wanting to pay student athletes, or with the shutting down of other programs. Or with charging $300 for what isn't even really a textbook anymore. A stack of pages you have to put in your own 3 ring binder, and cant trade in, and because they easily can print these things off, a new edition comes out every semester. Can't borrow a friends old one anymore. It's disgraceful. 

 

Breaking even my ass. If athletics is breaking even, schools are Scrooge McDuck rich, just borrow a mil from another department. Stuff happens under tables and in back alleys all the time anyway. 


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#35 bnickle

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:49 PM

Yeah, hes not being fired anytime soon. Plus he has a solid class coming in next year. The problem will be if he makes the tourny in '19 and '20 and they feel obligated to add more years onto an extension. Especially if he gets lucky and makes a S16 or deeper run.

#36 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:50 PM

I'm not sure what young coach you get for $1M. Apparently Chris Collins is the lowest paid coach in the Big 10 currently at $1.34M. If you're gonna fire Turgeon, you're gonna want a good, established coach, IMO. Someone who will cost $2-4M a year. I'd target Chris Mack.

And you also have to pay the staff. I doubt Turgeon's assistants have contracts for as long as he does, but yu still need to cover whatever is left. And each assistant makes at least $250k, plus the lower level staff proabably in the $50-150k range.

I think the margins are very narrow right now for the athletic department. They likely can't make a move that is going to push them into the red. Remember this isn't a pro team with an owner who can just choose to operate at a loss if he decides to.

The only way I think they decide to fire Turgeon in the near future is if Plank or some other rich donor agrees to cover the costs.

I mentioned earlier Joe Dooley from Florida Gulf Coast. He's making $277K. Be happy to make $1M, and couldn't really argue for more having not been in the major conferences.

I feel like targeting someone already from a major conference is like targeting Turgeon from Texas A&M all over again. Then again, the same could be said from Gary Williams track to get to Maryland through BC and OSU.

Go young and cheap with a high ceiling. If he fails, he goes about the same time Turgeon is off the payroll, then go after whomever. Or Dooley could be the next Coach K. Less douchey though.
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#37 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 02:58 PM

Of course he doesn't like it -- adding two league games means two more losses instead of two wins against garbage teams. 

 

What? Seeing them barely eke out wins against the likes of Bucknell and Monmouth isn't good enough? Are you not entertained!?!?!



#38 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

Actually looking up Joe Dooley for the first time... I like what I see.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Joe_Dooley_(basketball)

 

From New Jersey. Graduated from GW in 88'. MD would be closer to home than Florida. Got his feet wet head coaching at East Carolina from 95'-98'. But was an assistant for Bill Self in Kansas for 10 years before going to FGCU, which didn't even have basketball when the Terps won their title. And didn't become a D-I basketball school until 2011. 

 

Pretty sure Dooley has more signature wins than Turgeon does. He can get a team up for a big game. 

 

Oh well. A guy can dream.


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#39 Mackus

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:30 PM

I'm not enthused about hiring a guy you and I have just recently heard of.  That's not the type of candidate I'm interested in handing the reins over to.  If we can't afford to pay off Turgeon and bring in a real coach and real assistants, then you just keep Turgeon.

 

I don't know what the exact financial situation of the athletic department is.  But it's a public university that has to release all their records, so whatever the released documents are, that's the situation.  An article saying "they broke even" isn't an official document and i'd take it with a lot of skepticism, but the official state released documents that come out are something I'd take as meaningful.  I haven't seen those or been able to find them online.

 

It's possible the department is doing well enough that we can afford to buy him out.  I think it's more likely that we can't unless an outside donor steps up and gives money with the express purpose of it going towards Turgeon's buyout and payments.  Don't know for sure what the status is, of course, but given recent hardship the athletic department has had in terms of financials, I know which way feels more likely to me.



#40 BSLZackKiesel

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 08:56 AM

While I never actually saw the Athletic Department's budget while working with them while I was at UMD, I did have some decent insight into its status. It's not great. I don't want to say too much, but let's just say they were raiding other sports' (and my organization's) budgets left and right to pay for Edsall's $4.7 million buyout.


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