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Cosby, O'Reilly/Ailes, Weinstein, Spacey...


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#41 Mackus

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:47 PM

That would be a great ideal to have, but it would have to apply to both political parties for it to work.

 

I don't think the party should have anything to do with it.  I would give no benefit of the doubt to someone who is revealed to have committed harassment resigning to resign because some member of the other party who also was guilty didn't resign.  Anyone who does this should resign. 

 

Franken not doing so should be an embarrassment to every member of his party as well as every member of any other party.


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#42 The Epic

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:53 PM

I don't think the party should have anything to do with it.  I would give no benefit of the doubt to someone who is revealed to have committed harassment resigning to resign because some member of the other party who also was guilty didn't resign.  Anyone who does this should resign. 

 

Franken not doing so should be an embarrassment to every member of his party as well as every member of any other party.

 

But that's what I'm saying. It's not. Not saying it SHOULDN'T be, but it's not. 

 

For example, wasn't there something that came out about millions of dollars of harassment settlements paid out on behalf of members of Congress, but the names are sealed shut? I don't see anybody there clamoring to leave. 

 

If he wanted to do it because it was the right thing to do, he'd have come clean long ago. As would the others. 

 

I think he should resign. I just don't see any reason for him to. There is literally nothing he can do to undo this. 



#43 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:27 PM

I have no doubt that some of these guys have overstepped their boundries and some probably should even be in jail.

 

OTOH, it also gets to that witch hunt point where anyone can accuse anything from 30-40 years ago and as long as someone believes it, it becomes an issue.

 

I haven't followed all of this too closely but wasn't one of the Franken issues part of a comedic sketch?  I mean, if the woman thought it was going to far, why did she allow or just say something right then and there.  Part of me just wonders if people look for any little thing and run with it when they know they can get something back.


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#44 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

This sounds dangerously close to victim blaming, IMO.

I think there are many people who haven't felt comfortable or supported enough to come forward with stories of their past mistreatment. Now that the dam seems to be crumbling, they are much more comfortable sharing. I think you gotta be really careful about falling into a mindset of "well if something really happened to them they would've come forward sooner, so this must be bullshit." That's the mindset that tacitly caused many of these people to remain quiet for so long in the first place.

I'm sure there will be some amount of false allegations in here as well, or things where the victim perhaps feels they were abused but the accused never actually did anything wrong. And each allegation certainly needs to be checked for veracity. But you've gotta create a system where people who've been victims aren't scared away from coming forward.

Yep


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#45 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:41 PM

Politics shouldn't even come into play. World would be a lot simpler if we just took Rs and Ds away from in front of people names.
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#46 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 01:57 PM

I have no doubt that some of these guys have overstepped their boundries and some probably should even be in jail.

 

OTOH, it also gets to that witch hunt point where anyone can accuse anything from 30-40 years ago and as long as someone believes it, it becomes an issue.

 

I haven't followed all of this too closely but wasn't one of the Franken issues part of a comedic sketch?  I mean, if the woman thought it was going to far, why did she allow or just say something right then and there.  Part of me just wonders if people look for any little thing and run with it when they know they can get something back.

It was what happened behind the scenes before and after the sketch that she said was inappropriate. There is also a picture of her asleep on a plane in a flak jacket with him groping her over top of the vest.

 

And now a second woman has come forward on Franken.


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#47 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:44 PM

It was what happened behind the scenes before and after the sketch that she said was inappropriate. There is also a picture of her asleep on a plane in a flak jacket with him groping her over top of the vest.

 

And now a second woman has come forward on Franken.

Ok..I thought that was the picture from the sketch itself.  My mistake.  (Like I said, I haven't paid that much attention to it)


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#48 RShack

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:49 PM

We need some scale of badness concerning these things...  if we don't, and instead just jettison every male in a position of power who did something that used to be accepted but now isn't acceptable, then there's gonna be nobody left to run anything... business, entertainment, politics... just wait 'til we get to sports...

 

What are you gonna say when somebody recalls something one of your heroes did?


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#49 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:59 PM

We need some scale of badness concerning this things...  if we don't, and instead just jettison every male in a position of power who did something that used to be accepted but now isn't acceptable, then there's gonna be nobody left to run anything... business, entertainment, politics... just wait 'til we get to sports...

 

What are you gonna say when somebody recalls something one of your heroes did?

 

"He comes from a time where you just kept these sort of things under wraps and handled them in house"


There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#50 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:00 PM

We need some scale of badness concerning this things...  if we don't, and instead just jettison every male in a position of power who did something that used to be accepted but now isn't acceptable, then there's gonna be nobody left to run anything... business, entertainment, politics... just wait 'til we get to sports...

 

What are you gonna say when somebody recalls something one of your heroes did?

 

With the sex scandals, we've seen people fight against accusations. It doesn't seem like the stories about Stallone and Takei are sticking. And it seems like when someone is outed, if they knew they were wrong, they're admitting it, to different degrees.


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#51 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:03 PM

We need some scale of badness concerning this things...  if we don't, and instead just jettison every male in a position of power who did something that used to be accepted but now isn't acceptable, then there's gonna be nobody left to run anything... business, entertainment, politics... just wait 'til we get to sports...

 

What are you gonna say when somebody recalls something one of your heroes did?

There will be no one left to name a building or park or ship or stadium after either :)

 

There is a scale of badness with this stuff. I think most states have a 1st through 4th degree of sexual assault or harassment. Statues of limitations exist. They shouldn't for this stuff because of the psychological damage it does to the victim that makes them wait so long to come forward some. Thats why if you admit to doing what you did, even if you can't be charged because of a dated policy, you can take the high road and do the right thing. Or not. 

 

Peoples heroes are already being called out. Cosby is a hero to about every standup comic. Louis CK is probably a hero to most young aspiring stand up comics. Not sexual but Ray Rice was a hero to a ton of people and kids in the area. If Cal Ripken gets called out for something like this I'll say "damn, that sucks" and get on with my day, because hero worshiping of famous people is long gone for me. They are just like everyone else, except they happen to be really really good at something. Ho hum. 

 

No one gets a pass for sexual assault, or any unwanted sexual touching of another person.

 

You and a few others here seem like the last people that would want to go down the road of being okay with "what used to be acceptable" in this country.


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#52 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:03 PM

I kind of agree with Shack.

 

I don't like the idea of lumping all of these guys together and acting like what Cosby did (for example) is the same as what Franken did.

 

There are degrees to this...even if they are all wrong.

 

There's a difference between robbing someone at gun point and stealing from a store.  Both are stealing and obtaining things that aren't yours but obviously, the circumstances are much different.


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#53 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:05 PM

If it comes out that a female in power did this to another female or male, what would the reaction be?  Think it would be the same?


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#54 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:10 PM

If it comes out that a female in power did this to another female or male, what would the reaction be?  Think it would be the same?

If it's unwanted, then yes.


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#55 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:14 PM

If it comes out that a female in power did this to another female or male, what would the reaction be?  Think it would be the same?

Doubt it. 

 

You hear about it with school teachers. If it's a male teacher touching a female student its criminal. If its a female teacher touching a male student its "lucky kid".


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#56 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:16 PM

If it comes out that a female in power did this to another female or male, what would the reaction be?  Think it would be the same?

 

Depends on the political affiliation of the perp.


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There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#57 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:20 PM

Depends on the political affiliation of the perp.

Good point


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#58 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:21 PM

Doubt it. 

 

You hear about it with school teachers. If it's a male teacher touching a female student its criminal. If its a female teacher touching a male student its "lucky kid".

Did you hear about the 23 y/o teacher/cheerleading coach that was banging a 17 y/o down in NC?  Shes going to go to jail.

 

Crazy.  I went to the worst schools!


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#59 RShack

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:27 PM

No one gets a pass for sexual assault, or any unwanted sexual touching of another person.

 

So, hang'em all, regardless of the severity?

 

You and a few others here seem like the last people that would want to go down the road of being okay with "what used to be acceptable" in this country.

 

Where did I say I'm OK with any of it?

Answer: I didn't.

 

I just don't think what the 1st Prez Bush (who I didn't like as prez) is the same degree of bad as what Harvey Weinstein and Roy Moore did.   Do you?


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  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#60 Mackus

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:31 PM

If it comes out that a female in power did this to another female or male, what would the reaction be?  Think it would be the same?

 

I think it'd be the same.






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