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BSL: The Ravens lack identity and direction, and it could force sweeping changes


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#81 NewMarketSean

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:49 PM

Again good find. That 2000 Ravens offense wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. 16th overall. Over 5000 total yards. The 4 games in a row without a TD really gave them a bad rap.

It was actually 5 in a row, and 6 overall if you include the Dolphins loss that year. And that we went 2-3 in that span is a testament to Stover and the defense.


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#82 bnickle

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:52 PM

Ravens have 10 offensive TDs this year. 2 of them came in complete garbage time against Jacksonville and Minnesota.


I'd be curious to know how many offensive TDs the 2000 Ravens scored. And the '04 and '05 teams as well. We could set a new low this year


So the '04 Ravens set the franchise low for yards in a season. 4375 yards. The '05 Ravens set the low for TDs in a season. 21.

The '17 Ravens currently have 1943 total yards and 10 TDs. Seems likely they wont set franchise lows but the offense is as poor now as it was then. Maybe worse considering the changes to the game that have made it more offensive

#83 esporter

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 02:00 PM

So the '04 Ravens set the franchise low for yards in a season. 4375 yards. The '05 Ravens set the low for TDs in a season. 21.

The '17 Ravens currently have 1943 total yards and 10 TDs. Seems likely they wont set franchise lows but the offense is as poor now as it was then. Maybe worse considering the changes to the game that have made it more offensive

 

So something happened recently and I don't know what it is. Lack of good QBs or bad O Line play maybe. But it definitely felt, a few years ago, like we were heading toward "arcade mode" and every game being 45-38, and there was something wrong with you as a QB if you weren't hitting 4k yards and 30 TDs every year.

 

This year there is some crazy bad offense happening around the league.


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#84 Mike B

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 03:20 PM

So something happened recently and I don't know what it is. Lack of good QBs or bad O Line play maybe. But it definitely felt, a few years ago, like we were heading toward "arcade mode" and every game being 45-38, and there was something wrong with you as a QB if you weren't hitting 4k yards and 30 TDs every year.

 

This year there is some crazy bad offense happening around the league.

The league is cyclical, and it seems like things are trending back to the defense side.   I really think the O line  conditions are horrible around the league.  

As for the Ravens, our talent level, which was not great to begin with,  goes down every week.  We played yesterday with a pre-season type lineup.  

I almost laugh at some of the comments.  The hate level is off the charts.  I honestly do not know what to  think of this team.  We have not had  one quarter this year, where we came close to having our best options on the field, but yesterday was literally a pick up game.

This week seemed like an epidemic, of bad offense ,throughout the league.   We are probably the worst.


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#85 Mackus

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:13 PM

Martavis Bryant again talking that he wants out. I doubt it takes anything more than a 4th round pick to get him
Here. Trade for him.

He has high upside.

His suspension last year is a red flag and the sulking now is a problem, which could cause him to be worth a 5th rounder or less.

Either way, take the gamble on an excellent talent.

 

I wonder what the Steelers say if the Ravens offer Wallace for Bryant?



#86 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:23 PM

The Ravens should be calling some other teams, and offering a better pick than whatever pick they would be willing to give up to get Bryant in an immediate 2nd trade. There is no way the Steelers would trade a young talented, even if he's a headcase, to a division rival. 


That's just begging to give the motivation to see a guy blossom and do it twice a year against you for under market value. 



#87 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:35 PM

No thanks. 

Guy is suspended all of '16... team is generally winning right now, and he's crying about touches.

If Pitt gets rid of him, it's centralized around the idea that they believe him to be a cancer. 

 



#88 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

Redskins are barely using Terrelle Pryor, he might be another target for a trade.


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#89 Mackus

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:11 PM

Pryor is a FA after the year. I wouldn't trade any future draft picks for help this season, no matter how late. Although I suppose Pryor will bring comp picks in 2019, so there is some future value there.

#90 Roll Tide

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:34 PM

He's had some bad moments (London game?) but overall I actually think he has looked fine. A little soon to check down, as he's been basically since Trestman and then Marty took over.

But honestly without the All-22 I have no idea what's going on down the field. Do I think Griff Whalen was beating someone to get open? Not likely.

I really never thought I'd miss the days where Joe was just constantly heaving it down the field under Cam Cameron. I can hardly watch these Ravens anymore.


I think not having a QB coach is also hurting Joe. The reason for not having one is ridiculous. A QB coach could help keep Joe mechanically sound.

Marty sucks and needs to go....I also question Harbaugh's ability to select good coordinators. He didn't pick Kubiak and he inherited Ryan, and Pagano. So his Dc in Pees has been mediocre since then and the only good OC was forced on him from above.
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#91 RobHabib

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:39 PM

I think not having a QB coach is also hurting Joe. The reason for not having one is ridiculous. A QB coach could help keep Joe mechanically sound.

Marty sucks and needs to go....I also question Harbaugh's ability to select good coordinators. He didn't pick Kubiak and he inherited Ryan, and Pagano. So his Dc in Pees has been mediocre since then and the only good OC was forced on him from above.

Wouldn't you think at this point in Flacco's career he's able to grasp proper footwork? I just find it hard to comprehend how a super bowl MVP quarterback who once possessed decent footwork seems so clueless and I don't think a QB coach will change that, but I could be wrong. 



#92 BSLRobShields

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:07 PM

Wouldn't you think at this point in Flacco's career he's able to grasp proper footwork? I just find it hard to comprehend how a super bowl MVP quarterback who once possessed decent footwork seems so clueless and I don't think a QB coach will change that, but I could be wrong.


He needs a sports psychologist to fix it.

If he doesn’t get himself mentally right, it’s never going to get better on the field.
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#93 NewMarketSean

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:48 AM

He needs a sports psychologist to fix it.

If he doesn’t get himself mentally right, it’s never going to get better on the field.

Send him to the same one we sent Boller to. It worked wonders.


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#94 Mackus

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:56 AM

I don't think it's a sports psychologist issue.  That's largely for people who lack confidence in themselves or struggle with pressure or anxiety and I don't think that's Joe.  I think Joe does struggle with mechanics and fundamentals, and agree with those that think a QB coach drilling with him every day could make strides in those things.  It's not enough for Joe to know he needs to get it right, that doesn't translate onto the field.  At least not long-term, he might make a concerted effort and look good one week, but he falls back into bad habits shortly after.

 

That said, I think that most of his mistakes this year have been mental, not due to poor mechanics or footwork.  He's taken bad delay of game penalties, made dumb throws into coverage, or held the ball way too long and taken bad sacks on early downs.  None of those really have to do with footwork.  The quick check downs are also a problem, which kind of goes against the bad sacks after holding it too long.  Not sure if he's over-compensating for the times he holds it too long or if he's trying to avoid contact (either to avoid personal injury/pain or if he knows the pass blocking stinks and is just looking to avoid sacks or injuries knocking him out both of which hurt the team), but whatever the case he definitely is often too willing to dump it off to a back.


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#95 Hooded Viper

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:08 AM

I agree with Mackus but I also think holding the ball too long is a direct correlation to the fact that none of this shit ass wide receiver group can get open, and he is holding onto the ball hoping something breaks free down the field.  I also think he knows that his guard play is atrocious and that pressure will be coming any second up the middle.  To me that is also a direct correlation to why he dumps the ball off so much.  I just don't see a fix with this current group of lineman or receivers. 



#96 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:47 AM

I honestly dont think Joe has been that bad this year. He doesnt do well when pressured, but that is nothing new, he just doesnt have a good OL so it seems exacerbated at times.

Get some real weapons on offense and get a healthy OL and I think he can get back to his old mediocre with upside level of play.


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#97 BSLRobShields

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:49 AM

I don't think it's a sports psychologist issue.  That's largely for people who lack confidence in themselves or struggle with pressure or anxiety and I don't think that's Joe.  I think Joe does struggle with mechanics and fundamentals, and agree with those that think a QB coach drilling with him every day could make strides in those things.  It's not enough for Joe to know he needs to get it right, that doesn't translate onto the field.  At least not long-term, he might make a concerted effort and look good one week, but he falls back into bad habits shortly after.

 

That said, I think that most of his mistakes this year have been mental, not due to poor mechanics or footwork.  He's taken bad delay of game penalties, made dumb throws into coverage, or held the ball way too long and taken bad sacks on early downs.  None of those really have to do with footwork.  The quick check downs are also a problem, which kind of goes against the bad sacks after holding it too long.  Not sure if he's over-compensating for the times he holds it too long or if he's trying to avoid contact (either to avoid personal injury/pain or if he knows the pass blocking stinks and is just looking to avoid sacks or injuries knocking him out both of which hurt the team), but whatever the case he definitely is often too willing to dump it off to a back.

Hes afraid in the pocket.  He has basically said that in so many words.  He agrees he's too anxious, not patient, etc...He still isn't mentally over the knee injury.

 

Everything he does is effected by that IMO.


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#98 BSLRobShields

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:50 AM

I honestly dont think Joe had been that bad this year. He doesnt do well when pressured, but that is nothing new, he juat doesnt have a good OL so it seems exacerbated at times.

Get some real weapons on offense and get a healthy OL and I think he can get back to his old mediocre with upside level of play.

On FB, RSR had highlights of the last drive in the game at Pitt where T Smith caught the GW TD with 8 seconds left.

 

He was stepping into throws..Firing the ball all over the place.  He stepped up to avoid pressure, etc..

 

That was the Joe we used to see.  He is so different since the knee injury.


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#99 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

On FB, RSR had highlights of the last drive in the game at Pitt where T Smith caught the GW TD with 8 seconds left.

He was stepping into throws..Firing the ball all over the place. He stepped up to avoid pressure, etc..

That was the Joe we used to see. He is so different since the knee injury.

I think he looks slower and his pocket awareness is poor, but at the same time he hasnt really had much of a pocket to work with. Both guards have been abysmal so stepping up to avoid the rush is almost impossible when the line is caving.

There were plays in the Oakland game and some in the bears as well where I thought he looked great.
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#100 Mackus

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:57 AM

Hes afraid in the pocket.  He has basically said that in so many words.  He agrees he's too anxious, not patient, etc...He still isn't mentally over the knee injury.

 

Everything he does is effected by that IMO.

 

I agree that is the result. 

 

I just don't know that I agree that the "afraid" part is associated with fear or nervousness or anxiety as much as it is he thinks he's going to have defenders in his face or hitting him from behind right away and he needs to get rid of it before they get there so he dumps it off quickly.  I am just guessing, I could easily be wrong, but I think he is "afraid" of the negative results of letting the pass rush get to him, i.e. sacks, turnovers, or even an injury that causes him to miss games rather than him being "afraid" that the blitzers are going to hurt him again.  That's a nuanced distinction, which perhaps I'm not explaining well.  And ultimately, it doesn't matter at all which is the case, the end result is the same.

 

Joe has never been a QB with much pocket awareness.  Ideally, you have a QB who can sense or feel pressure coming even if they can't see it, so they hold the ball until someone gets open or until the pressure is upon them and then they can get rid of the ball (or scramble to buy even more time).  That's not Joe.  I think Joe typically has been someone who can get rid of the ball when he sees the pressure, but he's never had an instinctual feel for pressure he can't see.  So he has an internal clock, and he just waits until that clock is up and when it is he gets rid of the ball if he thinks there is pressure he can't see.  After the injury, and still with a crappy O-line that he doesn't trust, he has accelerated his internal clock.  So he's dumping the ball off sooner, thinking that the pressure he can't see is close to reaching him and forcing a bad result.


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