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BSL: The Ravens lack identity and direction, and it could force sweeping changes


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#21 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:54 PM

Wallace having an 8M cap hit is pretty hurtful.
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#22 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:57 PM

The biggest reason the Ravens don’t have top playmakers is because they haven’t made it a priority to get them.
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#23 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:58 PM

Pitt probably wouldn’t trade him to us but I wouldn’t mind looking into a Martavis Bryant deal.
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#24 esporter

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:40 PM

I don't even think you can really evaluate anything — coaching, Flacco — this year with the no name bums we're trotting out there on the OL and skill positions.

 

It's ironic that they overhauled their offseason work to try to cut down on the injuries and this has been the result. It's almost comical at this point. 


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#25 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:54 PM

I don't even think you can really evaluate anything — coaching, Flacco — this year with the no name bums we're trotting out there on the OL and skill positions.

It's ironic that they overhauled their offseason work to try to cut down on the injuries and this has been the result. It's almost comical at this point.

Was having this conversation with people today, some of which weren’t Ravens fans.

It’s very hard to evaluate Joe right now.

Now, don’t get me wrong. His issues are legit no matter the talent around him. The knee injury has really hurt his career, mentally.

But it’s highly likely that a healthy line and better skill talent would make him look better and he wouldn’t be the poor player he is right now.

Just tough to know what Joe is right now.
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#26 esporter

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:54 PM

Was having this conversation with people today, some of which weren’t Ravens fans.

It’s very hard to evaluate Joe right now.

Now, don’t get me wrong. His issues are legit no matter the talent around him. The knee injury has really hurt his career, mentally.

But it’s highly likely that a healthy line and better skill talent would make him look better and he wouldn’t be the poor player he is right now.

Just tough to know what Joe is right now.

 

He's had some bad moments (London game?) but overall I actually think he has looked fine. A little soon to check down, as he's been basically since Trestman and then Marty took over. 

 

But honestly without the All-22 I have no idea what's going on down the field. Do I think Griff Whalen was beating someone to get open? Not likely.

 

I really never thought I'd miss the days where Joe was just constantly heaving it down the field under Cam Cameron. I can hardly watch these Ravens anymore. 


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#27 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:06 PM

The Ravens currently have the 7th pick.
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#28 bnickle

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:49 PM

The front 7 has real issues. Also,  how much money are we paying our 3 shitty safties again



#29 Biggsy

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:20 AM

The front 7 has real issues. Also, how much money are we paying our 3 shitty safties again


Weddle or Jefferson would be fine with the right complement at FS, but those two together are too similar and just don't fit together.

#30 Ricker Says

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 05:45 AM

If you don't think paying mediocre QB's $20M doesn't impact depth, I don't know what to tell you.
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#31 bnickle

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:55 AM

Flacco' s contract is a huge burden but Oz has also failed us. The goal this year was to make this defense elite and instead it's below average. That's such a huge fail. The offense only has minimal upside with Flacco as QB. Everyone thought the defense had huge upside but that doesn't seem to be the case.

#32 Mackus

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:57 AM

If you don't think paying mediocre QB's $20M doesn't impact depth, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Hell paying good QBs $20M+ impacts depth.  There is no doubt about that.

 

Certainly likely that there are some other teams out there with high-priced non-star QBs that have better depth than we do.  But that is a far cry from having quality depth across the board like teams with nearly-free rookie deal QBs like Dallas with Prescott or Seattle and Cincy back before Wilson and Dalton got paid or even 1st round rookies who average in the $4-8M AAV range.

 

To have good depth you pretty much either have to have a cheap quarterback or have had a really good recent run on late-round draft picks and undrafted free agents.  Just not enough cap space to pay a QB and backfill the last 20 spots on your roster with proven commodities.



#33 bnickle

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:02 AM

I would argue the Ravens still find enough guys that provide quality depth. The problem is they are starting and or getting regular playing time. The problem has been the inability to find top tier starters and some of the ones we have found we weren't able to retain.

#34 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:21 AM

I would argue the Ravens still find enough guys that provide quality depth. The problem is they are starting and or getting regular playing time. The problem has been the inability to find top tier starters and some of the ones we have found we weren't able to retain.


Exactly.

Most of these guys look a lot better if they were playing when they are supposed to. If they were able to develop slowly, as opposed to throwing them right into the mix.

Every team is going to have injuries but let’s say Dixon, Lewis, Yanda, Woodhead, Gilmore and Urban never get hurt/suspended and are playing now.

That gives you arguably your 2 best playmakers (yes that’s sad but it is what it is), your line would be way better, TE would be stronger and you get back an important DLine piece.

I say we are at least 4-3 if those guys are there..that still leaves a lot of guys hurt and out for the season but those guys being there so make things better.

Going back to your point here, with those guys out, you are now relying on the next group to play all the time...as opposed to never playing, playing 10-15 snaps a game, etc...those are the guys you don’t want playing 35+ snaps a game right now but they have to.

Any team with the amount of injuries the Ravens have are going to have to play guys you don’t want to be playing right now. That makes the depth look worse than it actually is.

Going beyond that, when you don’t have the elite, difference making talent there for you to make plays at the end of games AND you have a team full of guys playing way more than they should, you end up with a team that can’t win games.

That isn’t the fault of Joe’s contract. It certainly doesn’t help but unless you are a lucky team paying a QB nothing(which is the greatest asset in Sports), you are still paying big money. Mike Glennon costs 14M against the cap this year. Most starting QBs make good money. That’s just reality.
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#35 Mackus

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:43 AM

That isn’t the fault of Joe’s contract. It certainly doesn’t help but unless you are a lucky team paying a QB nothing(which is the greatest asset in Sports), you are still paying big money. Mike Glennon costs 14M against the cap this year. Most starting QBs make good money. That’s just reality.

 

It is a function of Joe's contract, though.  If we had a cheap QB, we would have enough talent and depth spread across the board elsewhere to absorb those injuries without turning into a complete joke of an offense.

 

The injuries are a factor of why the team is bad this year, no doubt.  I don't think we'd have been good if we were injury free, especially the offense which was always going to be a struggle at best.  But the team was built with very little fault-tolerance. The only groups with any depth at all are the secondary and D-line.  Both of which have suffered some big time injuries but managed to remain solid (especially the secondary).  If the QB wasn't accounting for a such a huge portion of the cap, then the O-line, receivers, linebackers, and other groups would likely have similar depth and ability to absorb losses.

 

You're right that the difference between Joe's deal and the average veteran QB deal is not the problem.  It's not that extra few million that bites us.  It's the big veteran QB price tag in general.  We'd have this issue even if Joe was playing well.



#36 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:52 AM

Right...It’s really the salary structure of the league that is hurting depth.

QB get so much money that it will effect everything.
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#37 BSLJordanKough

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:52 AM

I'm just going to throw this out there. If I had to choose, I'd throw the coordinators out first and foremost. There is an intriguing combo of defensive players on this roster that are not being helped, IMO by scheme at all whatsoever. 

 

On offense saw what Kubiak did with a team that didn't have a ton of talent either. I think many would argue that year was similar. You could make similar arguments about a lack of leadership, a lack of elite talent at playmaker positions, on offense at that time, IMO. 

 

I like Harbs a lot, but he's AWFUL at picking coordinators. Much worse than I think many of the impacts on the team beyond injuries spiraling out of control. 

 

Smart coordinators matter a lot. And the Ravens used to be the cream of the crop when it came to coaches, look at how many of them are or were head coaches. Was that Billick? Ozzie? How was that pipeline lost and where did it go, particularly on the defensive side? 

 

If I had to rank our overall "get rid of this group" or "the real problem child" I'd rank them: Coordinators, Current Playmakers on offense, New QB with a clean cap hit, Harbs, Ozzie. 

 

Either way, this team just doesn't have the overall talent after injuries to make any strides forward. It's just not there. But I'm not sure I buy that scrapping everything is the answer. 



#38 NewMarketSean

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:53 AM

We all knew this would happen when we won the SB. The team had to sign Joe, had to make him the highest paid QB, and knew that he'd probably not come close to being worth his contract in the later years. This is how it played out. Joe bet on himself and won big and forced the team's hand.


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#39 NewMarketSean

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:57 AM

I'm just going to throw this out there. If I had to choose, I'd throw the coordinators out first and foremost. There is an intriguing combo of defensive players on this roster that are not being helped, IMO by scheme at all whatsoever. 

 

On offense saw what Kubiak did with a team that didn't have a ton of talent either. I think many would argue that year was similar. You could make similar arguments about a lack of leadership, a lack of elite talent at playmaker positions, on offense at that time, IMO. 

 

I like Harbs a lot, but he's AWFUL at picking coordinators. Much worse than I think many of the impacts on the team beyond injuries spiraling out of control. 

 

Smart coordinators matter a lot. And the Ravens used to be the cream of the crop when it came to coaches, look at how many of them are or were head coaches. Was that Billick? Ozzie? How was that pipeline lost and where did it go, particularly on the defensive side? 

 

If I had to rank our overall "get rid of this group" or "the real problem child" I'd rank them: Coordinators, Current Playmakers on offense, New QB with a clean cap hit, Harbs, Ozzie. 

 

Either way, this team just doesn't have the overall talent after injuries to make any strides forward. It's just not there. But I'm not sure I buy that scrapping everything is the answer. 

 

Aside from Kubiak's offense, which wasn't the Greatest Show on Turf by any means, the offenses have sucked in Baltimore since 1997. How is that? How has a franchise gone 20 years with mediocre to terrible offenses? The players, the coordinators, the coaches change but the results largely remain the same. That's why I am kind of past the whole coordinator stuff and pointing the finger at the FO. This team needs a philosophy change that begins with the FO. Ozzie has done wonders for this organization but it's time to admit his failures. No coordinator could make this milquetoast offense good, especially with the injuries we've had. So I'm basically throwing my hands up in the air at this point. I dont see how any change can improve things so I am throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nuke the team.


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#40 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:17 AM

Martavis Bryant again talking that he wants out. I doubt it takes anything more than a 4th round pick to get him
Here. Trade for him.

He has high upside.

His suspension last year is a red flag and the sulking now is a problem, which could cause him to be worth a 5th rounder or less.

Either way, take the gamble on an excellent talent.
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