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BSL: The Ravens lack identity and direction, and it could force sweeping changes


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#1 BSLJasonBHirschhorn

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 08:31 AM

BSL: The Ravens lack identity and direction, and it could force sweeping changes

http://baltimorespor...eeping-changes/


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Jason B. Hirschhorn is an award-winning sports journalist and Pro Football Writers of America member. He has bylines at NFL.com, SB Nation, Sports on Earth, and other outlets. He also serves as the senior reporter and editor for Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog. Follow him on Twitter: @by_JBH


#2 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 04:20 PM

Thoughts here? 

Where do you agree / disagree with Jason?



#3 Biggsy

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:17 PM

Thoughts here?

Where do you agree / disagree with Jason?


Seems like a guy that looks at stats and has it out for Flacco.

I mean, I don't disagree that Flacco has been bad to average at best for the better part of the last two years. But to point out interceptions as your main reason is a bit misleading. We saw two last week that were actually good throws right on the dot to WR's. And he makes it seem like if we had Matt Ryan, or someone in the upper echelon of QB's like him, our offensive problems would be immediately solved. Which flat out isn't true.

Flacco has the talent to win games. But he needs talent around him. When he was playing at a high level, he had a really good offensive line, Ray Rice in his prime, and Derrick Mason/Anquan Boldin and great receiving TE's. The past two years he's had Steve Smith. This year he's had a beat up Maclin and that's about it. Our starting offense is pretty much on par with the 2nd strings of good NFL offenses.

Literally, the only legit NFL starters we have on offense right now are Stanley, Howard, Maclin, Flacco and maybe Wallace. That's atrocious. Part of that is Ozzie' s fault for almost completely ignoring the offense all off-season. And part of it is due to injuries.

Before we can even dream of the playoffs again, we need to completely overhaul the offense. We need playmakers bad. I'm not saying he would have fixed everything, and his price was rather high, but even signing a vet like Peterson could be paying dividends right now. Peterson finally got on a team that used him properly and he showed vintage Peterson. I have no doubt that he would have done the same for us from week one.

#4 bnickle

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:55 PM

The Flacco contract is obviously the biggest contributor to our mediocrity since the SB but what could you do after that run he had through the playoffs. You had to pay him.


It's become clear to me how much Ray and Ed meant to this team. They were the leaders on and off the field. I remember debating Van Valkenburg back in the day about who had made the biggest impact on the club during those golden years of '08-'11. I mean it was logical to give credit to one of the two considering the end of the Billick era because Ray and Ed were here during that mediocre stretch of football. The truth is though that Flacco and Harbaugh were mostly riding Ed and Rays coattails. Those defenses during the end of Billicks era were still very good. They just had atrocious QB play and a coach they had soured on. Once we got decent QB play and a new voice in the lockerroom things were good but neither guy were true leaders in the organization. The guys that were the difference makers had both been here for years. I can't remember who it was, it may have been Brad Jackson when he was doing radio work here, who predicted the Ravens were in for some down times after Ed and Ray left mostly because of that leadership void. That was a spot on take.



#5 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 12:52 AM

The Flacco contract is obviously the biggest contributor to our mediocrity since the SB but what could you do after that run he had through the playoffs. You had to pay him.


It's become clear to me how much Ray and Ed meant to this team. They were the leaders on and off the field. I remember debating Van Valkenburg back in the day about who had made the biggest impact on the club during those golden years of '08-'11. I mean it was logical to give credit to one of the two considering the end of the Billick era because Ray and Ed were here during that mediocre stretch of football. The truth is though that Flacco and Harbaugh were mostly riding Ed and Rays coattails. Those defenses during the end of Billicks era were still very good. They just had atrocious QB play and a coach they had soured on. Once we got decent QB play and a new voice in the lockerroom things were good but neither guy were true leaders in the organization. The guys that were the difference makers had both been here for years. I can't remember who it was, it may have been Brad Jackson when he was doing radio work here, who predicted the Ravens were in for some down times after Ed and Ray left mostly because of that leadership void. That was a spot on take.

Bernard Pollard on twitter called out Harbaugh after Ray left and the other alpha dogs were let go. Said he'll actually have to coach now. 

 

Truer words haven't been spoken. Harbaugh is as good as the people around him. If he's got HOFers on the team he's a great coach. If he's got Rex Ryan or Gary Kubiak running a unit, he's a great coach. When he's got his besties and historically bad football coaches around him, and a GM that gave him nothing to work with on one side of the ball, well it's played out going on 4 of the last 5 seasons now. 

 

I think like his brother he'll have a better career in the college game motivating young guys and getting a new crop of talent every year. John can coach the Terps anytime.


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#6 Dupin

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:02 AM

Bernard Pollard on twitter called out Harbaugh after Ray left and the other alpha dogs were let go. Said he'll actually have to coach now. 

 

Truer words haven't been spoken. Harbaugh is as good as the people around him. If he's got HOFers on the team he's a great coach. If he's got Rex Ryan or Gary Kubiak running a unit, he's a great coach. When he's got his besties and historically bad football coaches around him, and a GM that gave him nothing to work with on one side of the ball, well it's played out going on 4 of the last 5 seasons now. 

 

I think like his brother he'll have a better career in the college game motivating young guys and getting a new crop of talent every year. John can coach the Terps anytime.

 

I agree, but some dumb owner will pay him because he won a Super Bowl.  He'll bounce around the league a bit one Steve does what needs to be done.



#7 Mike B

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 10:36 AM

Thoughts here? 

Where do you agree / disagree with Jason?

I read the article and respect Jason's opinion but do not agree with very much of it.  I was going to avoid expressing an opinion, but since you asked.

 

JMO, but evolved into another blame Joe article, which frankly I think was the intent.  The one line that got me, was the last 4 games were disastrous.  Certainly Jax and Pitt, were bad and Joe said it and took the blame.  He played a hell of a game against Oakland and IMO, played well against the Bears.   Anyone, who was at the game or watched it closely could see Joe played well.  The receivers and Oline left him exposed.  First, the picks.....if anyone blames Joe for either of the picks they IMO, are feeding an agenda.  The Perriman pick was a perfect throw.  Led him to the spot and dropped it in his hands.  The Moore pick, was a good play.  He escaped pressure, kept the play alive and put the ball right on Moore. who plain out screwed it up.

People can want Joe cut all they want, we still have another year and a half before we realistically can do anything there, and let's be honest, unless we bring in someone like Kap, we are in no position yet to move on.  My suggestion, get  the best we can from Joe, for the next 26 games, and let;s draft a young QB early this year.  Probably not a first round guy, but please no 6th or 7th round guy.  In case everyone memory is lacking, it is not easy to just find a QB.  The Cleveland Browns and Kyle Boller say hello.

This is not to absolve Joe.  He has been sub\par and the picks are alarming, butwe can win with how he played the last two weeks.

The other problem, I had was the Oline free agent comment.  The projected line, was supposed to be, Stanley, 1st round pick, Lewis, 3rd round, Jensen 6th round, Yanda, long time pro bowl guard and a question mark at RT, who turned out to be Austin Howard.  Had that line stayed in place, it had a chance to be a good one.

Yanda, Siragusa(4th round), Lewis, all got hurt, Urshel (round 5) retired, and now even Bob Skura who was not even on the OD roster are all hurt.  We are down to guard #6 and 7. There is no one to blame for this.  

Jason, I appreciate the work you put into the article.   Reasonable minds can disagree.  


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#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:14 AM

Yea, I tend to agree that Joe is getting too much blame in the article.

It’s always funny to me..people say this is the ultimate team game, that you need everyone around to do their job for you to do your job...you then talk about how injured the team is, how you don’t have a lot of talent out there
And then in the next breath, bash Joe.

If you believe the mantra that you need everyone else around you to do their job and also agree that injuries and lack of skill position talent are hurting the team, how can you then blame Joe for not putting up the stats?
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#9 Miller192

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 12:59 PM

For those who want Harbaugh fired, is there some coach out there that makes you want him over Harbs?  No agenda, just asking.

 

The Ravens have been so poor at drafting offensive talent that you almost have to fire Harbs.  Bring in another "offensive mastermind" and let them have more personnel say.

 

Our FO can pull a guy out of some no name school and turn him into an NFL player.  They don't have any clue what an offensive skill player looks like.


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#10 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:04 PM

For those who want Harbaugh fired, is there some coach out there that makes you want him over Harbs?  No agenda, just asking.

 

The Ravens have been so poor at drafting offensive talent that you almost have to fire Harbs.  Bring in another "offensive mastermind" and let them have more personnel say.

 

Our FO can pull a guy out of some no name school and turn him into an NFL player.  They don't have any clue what an offensive skill player looks like.

First name that comes to mind is Frank Reich. San Diego had a solid offense, now he's turning Philly's offense around, specifically Nelson Agholor. If he can turn that bust-to be around, what could he do for Perriman, or the next WR failure the Ravens draft? 

 

Maybe we should be done with Philly guys though. :)

 

Also the UMD tie is a nice touch. 

 

Probably some other names out there, but Reich comes to mind immediately. Someone like Scott Linehan might realize exactly how important an offensive line is. But he's already proved he's not head coach material though.


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#11 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:46 PM

First name that comes to mind is Frank Reich. San Diego had a solid offense, now he's turning Philly's offense around, specifically Nelson Agholor. If he can turn that bust-to be around, what could he do for Perriman, or the next WR failure the Ravens draft?

Maybe we should be done with Philly guys though. :)

Also the UMD tie is a nice touch.

Probably some other names out there, but Reich comes to mind immediately. Someone like Scott Linehan might realize exactly how important an offensive line is. But he's already proved he's not head coach material though.


Reich is a good idea.

McDaniels is another one.
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#12 Ricker Says

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:50 PM

McDaniels can pound sand. Smug bastard.

Vinny Cerrato is annoying as hell but had a succinct quote about Flacco today... "Show me a team paying their QB $20+M, and I'll show you a team with no depth."
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#13 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:08 PM

McDaniels can pound sand. Smug bastard.

Vinny Cerrato is annoying as hell but had a succinct quote about Flacco today... "Show me a team paying their QB $20+M, and I'll show you a team with no depth."


Except he’s wrong
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#14 Ricker Says

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:12 PM


Except he’s wrong


Ravens have depth?
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#15 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:21 PM

Vinny is implying every team paying their QB top dollar has poor depth. Obviously not the case except here in Baltimore.
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#16 Dupin

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:26 PM

My head knows McDaniels is a mistake, but I wanna roll the dice.  What we have ain't working, time to change.



#17 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:28 PM

Ravens have depth?

No, I’m saying teams are paying that money (or very close to it) and they have depth.

He’s just wrong in saying that.

The Flacco contract sucks...but it’s far from the reason this team sucks.
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#18 Ricker Says

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:45 PM

Most teams lack depth but create the illusion of it when their top dollar QB actually makes players better.
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#19 Ricker Says

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:47 PM

No, I’m saying teams are paying that money (or very close to it) and they have depth.

He’s just wrong in saying that.

The Flacco contract sucks...but it’s far from the reason this team sucks.

It's the primary reason by a wide margin. He's mediocre but hogging a huge portion of the cap thus hamstring the team's ability to get any legit playmakers for him.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
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#20 BSLRobShields

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:52 PM

It's the primary reason by a wide margin. He's mediocre but hogging a huge portion of the cap thus hamstring the team's ability to get any legit playmakers for him.


No it doesn’t.

Unless you have a QB who is making no money but performing well (think Dak for example), your QB will cost a lot of money.

There are 14 NFL QBs who have a cap hit of 18M or more.

There are another 6 making 14M or more.

Even if Joe made less money, he’s still probably making 15-18M against the cap.

This year, he is counting 24M against the cap. It’s a decent amount more but it’s not so much more that the holes of this team would be solved. Also, the Ravens don’t spend big money in FA, for the most part, anyway. They may have kept Wagner but probably not a whole lot more than that.


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