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#21 Chris B

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 07:07 AM

I've said this about guys like Sisco and Mountcastle....no issues with the talent.  I just question whether you have to draft him HERE.   Aiken isn't going to be around at #69?   We essentially are trading Nolan Jones for Dietz....   .....what's worse is we probably actually traded Matusz and Nolan Jones for 3M. 
  The MLB draft has a lot of other factors.  They might take him here so he'll sign below slot and allocate the money elsewhere.   I feel like I have to remind people of this every year.  Its not the NFL draft.
It really is a crapshoot. All of the team's try to get under slot deals basically after the first round. Yesterday in the 5th, the Yankees were offering a guy $250k even though the slot was $350k. Just to show an example that every team does it.

#22 dude

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 10:46 AM

Are you really bashing the O's for taking a player that you didn't know existed before the draft?

 

I'm all for getting as much talent in the system as possible, but there is literally no way you can say definitively that they aren't doing that.  Reading a BA ranking does not make you an expert on this stuff.  It just doesn't, you can't argue that. 

 

Wait....you didn't know who Nolan Jones was....so nobody else can either?  I'd have had no issues if they had taken Nolan Jones with their #27 pick.  When we first started lining up talent based on projected draft slots I think I had Benson at #14 (taken by the Indians there in our slot) and Jones at #27 (I struggle to use search here).  One of the BA Mocks had the Orioles taking him there.  I listen to MLB Radio every day and they specifically talked about Jones and how he was one of the bigger sleeper talents in the draft.

 

If they liked Sedlock and didn't think he'd be around at #54, no issues taking him over Jones.....but when Jones is sitting there as easy 1st round talent at #54....ugh....that's a miss.....especially when you take a guy that could reasonably be there 15 picks later.

 

Hey, maybe he microwaves kittens.  



#23 McNulty

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 11:42 AM

No dude you have it backwards. What I said was *you* didn't know who this guy is. You are upset because they didn't take a pick who was valued higher in a mock draft? Please.

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#24 McNulty

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 11:46 AM

Just to prove my point THE KIDS NAME IS SPELLED WRONG IN THE THREAD TITLE AN NO ONE NOTICED.


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#25 dude

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 12:21 PM

No dude you have it backwards. What I said was *you* didn't know who this guy is. You are upset because they didn't take a pick who was valued higher in a mock draft? Please.

 

You are significantly confused.  



#26 dude

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 12:21 PM

Just to prove my point THE KIDS NAME IS SPELLED WRONG IN THE THREAD TITLE AN NO ONE NOTICED.

 

Chris, please give me access to everyone's account so I can correct spelling errors.

------

 

Chris....McNulty is UNSATISFIED with your latest change and will demand that someone tell you to put the "i" between the "k" and the "n". 

 

Hell, I can't even tell who the guy is.....he's not even listed in BA top500.



#27 RShack

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 01:47 PM

Chris, please give me access to everyone's account so I can correct spelling errors.

------

 

Chris....McNulty is UNSATISFIED with your latest change and will demand that someone tell you to put the "i" between the "k" and the "n". 

 

Hell, I can't even tell who the guy is.....he's not even listed in BA top500.

 

2b3bdf101630b2d61be17087b466e12d.jpg


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#28 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 02:31 PM

McNulty...do you think it's fair to give this organization the benefit of the doubt that they will scout, draft and develop well?
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#29 McNulty

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:20 PM

I only think its fair to judge since the Rajsich has been doing the drafting. 

 

Dude, please explain to me what I'm confused about.  You are clearly the one that is confused.


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#30 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:27 PM

I only think its fair to judge since the Rajsich has been doing the drafting.    Dude, please explain to me what I'm confused about.  You are clearly the one that is confused.

His response will likely leave me confused, so there's that.
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#31 McNulty

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:35 PM

McNulty...do you think it's fair to give this organization the benefit of the doubt that they will scout, draft and develop well?


Just thinking about this a little more, and I have a question.

You were very against them giving up the draft picks, yet you have no confidence in them to scout, draft and develop well. If they aren't very good at developing players through the system, then wouldn't it be logical to sign free agents at a discounted price because of the draft pick penalty? (to be clear this is not something I'm advocating)

I don't think the reply can simply be that more picks give a greater chance to 'hit'.

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#32 RShack

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:37 PM

I only think its fair to judge since the Rajsich has been doing the drafting. 

 

You're doing this all wrong...

 

Look, it's easy: 

 

You need to diss them for being stupid and incompetent whenever they do something other than what you would do...  

 

When they do something right, you compliment them by saying what they did is OK while vaguely claiming they could've done something else that's better... and, since they didn't, then even the thing they did right will hurt the team in the long run.

 

That's just 2 measly rules, and they're both easy enough... so I don't see what the problem is...


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  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#33 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:47 PM

I only think its fair to judge since the Rajsich has been doing the drafting. 

 

Dude, please explain to me what I'm confused about.  You are clearly the one that is confused.

 

Rajsich's overall O's resume is complicated by the '14 Draft, and some other things out of his control.  Think this '16 Draft is huge for him. Have had a GM of another team previously tell me he wasn't a fan professionally.. but that's neither here nor there.

 

I don't really understand the passion of your arguments in this thread.

 

I know zippy about any of these players, including those where multiple scouting reports, and video is directly available.
I decided years ago, that trying to pretend like I had any real opinion on these players I had not directly seen was just dumb.

 

So, yeah.. I get the idea that if someone was directly critiquing individual players they had not evaluated, as opposed to the professionals who had.... that would be dumb.

That hasn't been what has happened here.  The only thing which has happened has been questions on the process.

 

Did they go bpa?

Were they focused on x? (Collegiate pitching.)

If so, with the organization's lack of effort/desire to get involved with the top international talent.... is that just another reason to simply take the best talent available?

 

Was player x the best talent on their board?  If so, that's great....

 

If not, do they have a deal in-place? Will there be allocations of savings elsewhere?

I don't think there is reason to default simply to Baseball America, or MLB Pipeline, or 2080 (don't know if they had full rankings)...   I do think Rajsich et all have to take the guys they like best. It's their careers obviously.  And also obviously you'd like to think they were a step-up (if only due to having more resources available) from the 3rd party evaluators....  OTOH, Manuel, Callis, Mayo, Nick etc...  those guys are obviously pros in their own right, and fully connected to many in baseball.

When Manuel and Callis are saying.... "This player was a bit of a reach here on our boards....," that shouldn't be disregarded imo. It's not just their opinions when they say that, but the consensus of all of the people they've talked to.  

 

And for the record here with Akin.. they didn't say he was a reach, both had good comments on him (again, which is also based on the comments of others they've talked to)....  but there were players much higher on both their boards still available, and that should be noted.


Time will tell.



#34 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:57 PM

Just thinking about this a little more, and I have a question.
You were very against them giving up the draft picks, yet you have no confidence in them to scout, draft and develop well. If they aren't very good at developing players through the system, then wouldn't it be logical to sign free agents at a discounted price because of the draft pick penalty? (to be clear this is not something I'm advocating)
I don't think the reply can simply be that more picks give a greater chance to 'hit'.


Because even a broken clock is right twice a day and the FAs they go after are shitty.

Not to mention, it gives you inventory to make trades.
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#35 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:57 PM

McNulty...you think Rajisch is doing a good job drafting?
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#36 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:59 PM

McNulty...you think Rajisch is doing a good job drafting?

That's not his point and you know it.
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#37 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 03:59 PM

Rajsich's overall O's resume is complicated by the '14 Draft, and some other things out of his control.  Think this '16 Draft is huge for him. Have had a GM of another team previously tell me he wasn't a fan professionally.. but that's neither here nor there.
 
I don't really understand the passion of your arguments in this thread.
 
I know zippy about any of these players, including those where multiple scouting reports, and video is directly available.
I decided years ago, that trying to pretend like I had any real opinion on these players I had not directly seen was just dumb.
 
So, yeah.. I get the idea that if someone was directly critiquing individual players they had not evaluated, as opposed to the professionals who had.... that would be dumb.
That hasn't been what has happened here.  The only thing which has happened has been questions on the process.
 
Did they go bpa?
Were they focused on x? (Collegiate pitching.)
If so, with the organization's lack of effort/desire to get involved with the top international talent.... is that just another reason to simply take the best talent available?
 
Was player x the best talent on their board?  If so, that's great....
 
If not, do they have a deal in-place? Will there be allocations of savings elsewhere?
I don't think there is reason to default simply to Baseball America, or MLB Pipeline, or 2080 (don't know if they had full rankings)...   I do think Rajsich et all have to take the guys they like best. It's their careers obviously.  And also obviously you'd like to think they were a step-up (if only due to having more resources available) from the 3rd party evaluators....  OTOH, Manuel, Callis, Mayo, Nick etc...  those guys are obviously pros in their own right, and fully connected to many in baseball.
When Manuel and Callis are saying.... "This player was a bit of a reach here on our boards....," that shouldn't be disregarded imo. It's not just their opinions when they say that, but the consensus of all of the people they've talked to.  
 
And for the record here with Akin... they didn't say he was a reach, both had good comments on him (again, which is also based on the comments of others they've talked to)....  but there were players much higher on both their boards still available, and that should be noted.

Time will tell.


No reason to attempt to bring common sense and rational points into a thread where people are arguing for reasons that don't align with what happens and has happened for years.


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#38 BSLRobShields

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 04:00 PM

That's not his point and you know it.


Of course that's the fucking point. He said, he is only focused on how he is drafting. Fine. Fuck what has happened in the past with the ineptitude(even though many of those people are still there making decisions).

Judge him now...has he done a good job?
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#39 RShack

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 04:03 PM

Do we have reason to think that the scouting info available to us consumers is truly comparable to the scouting info available to MLB clubs?   

 

I ask because I hear about the clubs using both proprietary systems and megabucks subscription info services... but due to the nature of those things, it's hard to judge what that really means...


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#40 Ricker Says

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 04:05 PM

That's not his point and you know it.
Of course that's the fucking point. He said, he is only focused on how he is drafting. Fine. Fuck what has happened in the past with the ineptitude(even though many of those people are still there making decisions).Judge him now...has he done a good job?

I don't think he has, but I see no issue with the process here. It may be another poor draft, but no one knows that yet. There isn't some huge talent gap in who they took and who they didn't. After the elite few, there isn't a huge talent disparity, IMO. So few drafted players ever make it. Crapshoot is putting it lightly.


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