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EDIT: Muhammad Ali Dies Age 74


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#21 RShack

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 12:01 AM

It seems that MSNBC is now being the Muhammad Ali Channel... I'n guessing it will mostly stay that way until Monday morning...


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#22 Icterus galbula

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 03:27 AM

I wish I could have seen him at his peak powers. A champion in a number of different ways. 



#23 mweb08

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 11:05 AM

Another really good article: 

Muhammad Ali was the greatest -- and it was never enough

 

 http://www.foxsports...-kindred-060316



#24 RShack

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 05:50 PM

Photo courtesy of Boy Howdy...

 

ali_baseball.jpg


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#25 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:00 PM

Cool pic... who is Boy Howdy?



#26 McNulty

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:04 PM

Cool pic... who is Boy Howdy?

 

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#27 tennOsfan

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:03 AM

I consider it a great fortune that as a kid, I was able to watch on a tiny little black and white TV the final time Ali won the title. I watched it one night with my mom. I was seven or eight. I knew nothing about boxing or Ali, but the whole time I knew I was watching something important. The only other times I've had that feeling was the 1980 U.S. hockey win over U.S.S.R. and the 1986 World Series.


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#28 SammyBirdland

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 04:32 PM

This might be obvious, but I heard it on the radio and thought it was interesting. During Muhammad Ali's prime, the three most popular sports in America were baseball, boxing, and horse racing. The first championship fight between Ali and Sonny Liston was February 1964 in Miami Beach, Florida. Ali (then Clay) won going into the seventh round. The May 1965 rematch was held in...Lewiston, Maine (?)
¡Hasta la vista, pelota!

#29 RShack

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 05:45 PM

This might be obvious, but I heard it on the radio and thought it was interesting. During Muhammad Ali's prime, the three most popular sports in America were baseball, boxing, and horse racing. The first championship fight between Ali and Sonny Liston was February 1964 in Miami Beach, Florida. Ali (then Clay) won going into the seventh round. The May 1965 rematch was held in...Lewiston, Maine (?)

 

It was in Lewiston, ME because they couldn't get any other place to host it... everybody was mad at Ali for changing his name and announcing he was a Black Muslim (he later switched to different flavors of Islam), which at the time was kinda like saying you were a Commie, only worse... plus Liston (who was basically a thug) kept getting arrested for various things... plus, it came out that the contract for 1st fight included a re-match clause, which fueled the claims (by those who couldn't believe Clay had beat Liston) that the 1st fight was fixed in order to drum up business for the rematch... one of the 2 boxing org's (WBA or WBC, I forget which) banned such contracts, so they voted to strip Ali of his title... but the other boxing org did not...

 

They were gonna have the rematch in Boston, but something happened (I forget what) and Massachusetts pulled out at the last minute.. the promoters had to have the fight when scheduled due to their contract for CCTV, and Lewiston was the only place they could find at the last miniute...  the main reason if was so hard to find a site was because the boxing commissions of most states would not permit the fight in their state because of all the brouhaha described above...

 

As for the 3 most popular sports, baseball was clearly #1... if boxing was up there, Ali was the only reason... dunno what to say about horse racing... AFAIK, most people didn't care about it until Secretariat....


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 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#30 RShack

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 05:57 PM

Also... during Ali's prime he was not allowed to box at all... we saw him before his prime when he was simply impossible to hit... and we saw him after his prime when he was brilliant and tough but less quick... but nobody ever got to see him fight during his prime... including him..

 

Imagine if Palmer had been banned from baseball during the 4 years in which he won his 3 CYA's... that's what happened to Ali...


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 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#31 BSLRobShields

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:49 PM

What's interesting is that this guy is revered so much and people love his quotes but if he was an athlete today, he would be despised for that same attitude and personality.
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#32 mweb08

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 07:57 PM

What's interesting is that this guy is revered so much and people love his quotes but if he was an athlete today, he would be despised for that same attitude and personality.



From what I gather, he was despised by many, at least until late in his career.

#33 BSLRobShields

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:03 PM

From what I gather, he was despised by many, at least until late in his career.


Yea he was but it seems like it was more racial and outside of the ring stuff.

As time went on though, his quotes and outspokenness became something people loved.

Either way, no way this society could wrap their arms around a guy like that today. Hell, they can't even handle a fucking bat flip or end zone dance.
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#34 mweb08

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 08:10 PM

From what I gather, he was despised by many, at least until late in his career.



Yea he was but it seems like it was more racial and outside of the ring stuff.


As time went on though, his quotes and outspokenness became something people loved.


Either way, no way this society could wrap their arms around a guy like that today. Hell, they can't even handle a fucking bat flip or end zone dance.


Many didn't like the arrogance either, but that's partially related to the race issue. Some didn't like the way he fought either.

I think the quotes and outspokenness became a lot more popular after his ability to speak diminished, which is what Jim Brown has suggested.

#35 RShack

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 09:42 PM

Many didn't like the arrogance either, but that's partially related to the race issue. Some didn't like the way he fought either.

I think the quotes and outspokenness became a lot more popular after his ability to speak diminished, which is what Jim Brown has suggested.

 

The quotes and outspokenness became more popular as society as a whole came around to his point of view.,.. except for the black separatist stuff... on topics other than that, society looked back and saw that he was right about all the other stuff, he just got there before the rest of society did... and that happened way before his disease crippled his ability to talk like his old self... 

 

Now, him being limited by his disease made people miss the way he spoke, the quickness and the wit... it made him more of a sympathetic character... but by the time he beat Frazier in their 3rd fight, pretty much everybody agreed he was truly great... for most folks, he was the Babe Ruth of boxing, even if they hated him at first for being uppity and a loudmouth...between the Rumble in the Jungle and the Thrilla in Manila, everybody could see he was (a) a boxing genius, and (b ) a legitimately super-tough boxer...  it took Foreman and Frazier to help everybody see that....

 

Foreman was superhuman... he knocked out everybody in the first 3 rounds... everybody... including Joe friggin' Frazier who had never been knocked out... he took them all out... not by TKO's, but by KO's... everybody... until Ali took everything Foreman had, and then he knocked Foreman out, which nobody else ever did, either before or since... nobody thought that was gonna happen... nobody...

 

Frazier was a truly great boxer, in a relentless-bull kind of way... when he and Ali fought for the 1st time, they both were undefeated World Champions, and that had never happened before... there was nothing finesseful about Frazier... he just came at you relentlessly and hit you until you fell over... Ali out-toughed Frazier 3 times... even after the 1st fight when Frazier won, Ali was on TV looking pretty, saying that Frazier was in the hospital for 30 days after that fight... "people get run over by trucks and they're not in the hospital for 30 days... and here I am, still as pretty as ever...but he thinks he won!"   Even the folks who used to hate him couldn't help but at least smirk at stuff like that... and they came to respect him in part because he came on TV right after he lost...  after Ken Norton broke his jaw, he came on TV with his jaw wired shut... after the Frazier loss, he was on TV before Frazier was out of the hospital... now, it's normal for guys to go on TV after they won... but Ali was right there, willing to face everybody, right after he lost... not many guys did that...


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 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#36 RShack

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Posted 09 June 2016 - 04:52 PM

"When We Were Kings" on MSNBC tomorrow at 10p

 

Nice documentary about the Rumble in the Jungle... everybody (except Ali) thought Foreman was not only gonna win, but was gonna hurt Ali bad... if you haven't seen it, it's definitely worth a watch....


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#37 RShack

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 06:36 PM

Well, they buried him...

 

I think the 20th Century is finally over now...


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan





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