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BSL: Argument For Pedro Alvarez Still Exists


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 01:50 PM

BSL: Argument For Pedro Alvarez Still Exists

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#2 RShack

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 02:50 PM

What about Davis supports the idea that he can't be better than average in RF?   He obviously needs to get better at recognition and routes, but I don't see any reason to think he can't.  It's not like he's tried and failed.   He's not slow and his arm is great... so I think it's quite possible he could turn out to be good out there...

 

p.s.  I think this is mostly academic because I don't think Buck wants him out there..


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  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#3 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 03:00 PM

What about Davis supports the idea that he can't be better than average in RF?   He obviously needs to get better at recognition and routes, but I don't see any reason to think he can't.  It's not like he's tried and failed.   He's not slow and his arm is great... so I think it's quite possible he could turn out to be good out there...

 

p.s.  I think this is mostly academic because I don't think Buck wants him out there..

 

I don't know that he can't be above average... I do know he can be at-least average.



#4 Icterus galbula

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 03:00 PM

I like the idea of Alvarez too. Max out on the power because what else can we do. Definitely want one more guy to add to the four corner mix.

As is, I think Wieters gets a fair amount of DH play and Davis will man RF as Trumbo plays first.

#5 RZNJ

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 04:31 PM

Davis signed to play 1B.  Just read his interview after signing.   All the outfield talk was Scott Boras BS.   Alvarez is not a fit.   That pushes Trumbo to RF.    The O's need a RF with decent defense and an average bat.     A name that keeps popping up is Max Venable.   That's the type of guy the O's probably get.   Now, if they can just avoid overpaying like they tend to do.



#6 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 04:33 PM

Davis signed to play 1B.  Just read his interview after signing.   All the outfield talk was Scott Boras BS.   Alvarez is not a fit.   That pushes Trumbo to RF.    The O's need a RF with decent defense and an average bat.     A name that keeps popping up is Max Venable.   That's the type of guy the O's probably get.   Now, if they can just avoid overpaying like they tend to do.

 

Davis is signed to a contract. You can play him where you want. He's capable of playing RF.... Trumbo is capable of playing 1st... Alvarez at DH helps the lineup as a whole.  For one year, makes sense all around to me.



#7 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 04:45 PM

The numbers suggest Trumbo is better in LF than RF. He can likely better use his plus arm in LF to compensate for his range issues in LF than in RF. You don't need a big arm to play RF at OPACY, so maybe Kim could handle RF. I don't see Davis playing regularly in RF but I could see 25-30 games out there in addition to some DH. Then figure Trumbo and Alvarez would platoon to at least some degree. Add Reimold (my guess) in the equation and maybe Rickard as a defensive replacement. A lot of moving parts but I think it could work. Could also be some potentially disastrous OF defense.    .    



#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 04:56 PM

Davis is signed to a contract. You can play him where you want. He's capable of playing RF.... Trumbo is capable of playing 1st... Alvarez at DH helps the lineup as a whole.  For one year, makes sense all around to me.

Buck loves to rave about Davis at first but Buck did play Davis in RF last year when he had to.

 

That being said, I think they look to add an OFer before Alvarez.


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#9 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 04:58 PM

Should still look at Jay Bruce.


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#10 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 05:36 PM

The numbers suggest Trumbo is better in LF than RF. He can likely better use his plus arm in LF to compensate for his range issues in LF than in RF. You don't need a big arm to play RF at OPACY, so maybe Kim could handle RF. I don't see Davis playing regularly in RF but I could see 25-30 games out there in addition to some DH. Then figure Trumbo and Alvarez would platoon to at least some degree. Add Reimold (my guess) in the equation and maybe Rickard as a defensive replacement. A lot of moving parts but I think it could work. Could also be some potentially disastrous OF defense.    .    

 

Why not just make it simpler, and look at it as Davis as the RF, Trumbo at 1st, and Alvarez as the primary DH?



#11 dude

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:13 PM

Why not just make it simpler, and look at it as Davis as the RF, Trumbo at 1st, and Alvarez as the primary DH?

 

For the life of me I really don't understand the Davis in the OF discussion.

 

He's certainly capable and will do whatever the team needs, but he's going to be the 1B.

 

Let's just get Ethier for nothing.  He is a RF....LAD need to move an OFer (still)....he's a good OBP guy.

 

3B Machado

RF Ethier

CF Jones

1B Davis

DH Trumbo

C  Wieters

2B Schoop

LF Kim

SS Hardy

 

bench: Joseph, Rickard, Reimold, Flaherty

 

I'd still rather have a different bat than Trumbo and Kim....but it is what it is for now.



#12 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:21 PM

Why not just make it simpler, and look at it as Davis as the RF, Trumbo at 1st, and Alvarez as the primary DH?

1. I don't see Buck doing it.

2. It probably does creates more injury risk for Davis..

3. it makes platooning more complicated, if not not less optimum.

4. I'm not sure it provides the best efficiency.  



#13 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:23 PM

Should still look at Jay Bruce.

Sounds good but I'm getting weary of shedding more prospects.  



#14 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:25 PM

1. I don't see Buck doing it.

2. It probably does creates more injury risk for Davis..

3. it makes platooning more complicated, if not not less optimum.

4. I'm not sure it provides the best efficiency.  

 

All rationale arguments.



#15 RShack

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:26 PM

I agree Davis in RF, Trumbo at 1B and Alvarez at DH is the best thing to do.

 

I also agree they're v. unlikely to do that, mainly (solely?) because they don't wanna call Davis a RF'er this season (for whatever reasons).

 

EDIT:  If I said this like I was outraged about it, and called DD and Buck morons for not doing what I wish they'd do, would other folks then realize that I don't always agree with them?  Or am I just typecast?


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  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#16 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:50 PM

Dude brings up Ethier and that is a good target.

 

An Ethier/Wood package probably makes the most sense for us (given our needs), especially if taking on Ethier allowed us to get Wood for a little less.

 

Putting Brach and Matusz in the deal would be appealing to the Dodgers IMO and while it would hurt to lose Brach, adding a guy like Wood would help and Buck still has options to work with if Brach is gone.


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#17 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 06:54 PM

Dude brings up Ethier and that is a good target.

 

An Ethier/Wood package probably makes the most sense for us (given our needs), especially if taking on Ethier allowed us to get Wood for a little less.

 

Putting Brach and Matusz in the deal would be appealing to the Dodgers IMO and while it would hurt to lose Brach, adding a guy like Wood would help and Buck still has options to work with if Brach is gone.

Just to expand on this....

 

Ethier is owed 38M the next 2 seasons, which is way too much money but Wood isn't going to make anything, so that obviously more than makes up for it.

 

Now, it would also mean this team needs to find another Steve Pearce...IE, a righty who can hit lefties.  So, they need to spend more money but you can probably find that guy cheap.


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#18 dude

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 07:38 PM

Ethier is owed 38M the next 2 seasons, which is way too much money but Wood isn't going to make anything, so that obviously more than makes up for it.

 

The Dodgers are paying Ethier either way...so the money will make little difference to them (in terms of eating dollars).  Just to expand on this....the Dodgers ate something like 87M in contract dollars to do what they wanted in 2015.

 

I don't know why we'd assign much value to Wood...he's not a a starter for them (this is the issue for any GM when you build depth you can't use).  Guys aren't even really starters if you are keeping them stretched out in a way which would allow them to go consistently deeper (this is the myth about you can't have too much pitching...you certainly can).

 

Right now....I'm not even sure all of the Orioles bullpen arms fit because they have too many guys with no options too.

 

So while I think it should be bigger than this, a super simple version is....

 

Brach for Wood, Ethier and $$

 

Dodgers make the money even in 2016, Orioles eat 12.5M (whatever) of his deal in 2017.



#19 BSLRobShields

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 07:44 PM

http://www.latimes.c...0119-story.html


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#20 dude

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 08:23 PM

http://www.latimes.c...0119-story.html

 

...and there's that.  I think Ethier, like most players, wants the chance to contribute in a way they are comfortable with.  Never get that in LA the way they are configured today.

 

I think it mostly makes it harder to trade him...not because he'd reject opportunity...but because most of these guys have an inflated sense of self worth and would insist on getting another year or 2 or whatever tacked into the deal (see: Papelbon)

 

I think Ethier makes a lot of sense for the Orioles at RF/DH/LF.

 

There's also a reaosn there's so little discussion on him or any of these guys....and it's because the market is terrible for them right now.  This is the fallacy of the fangraphs approach...it ignores market.  If nobody needs you, you don't have a "$8.2M/W" profile....because you don't have a job.

 

With the pre-Met discussion of Cespedes to DC....the Nats pushed Micheal Taylor out of a job with Ben Revere....if they wanted to try and package Taylor (good OF prospect) with Werth to move the contract.....what team has any interest?






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