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BSL: Who would you prefer over Flacco...


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#1 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 07:19 AM

....and keep in mind that the goal is to win the Super Bowl. Not to lead the league in passing yards, or fantasy points.

 

http://baltimorespor.../prefer-flacco/

 

I lend my QB ranking based on who I would want to lead my team in 2015, with the Super Bowl as the goal, and heavier focus on our boy Flacco.


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#2 ShawnBrubaker

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 08:06 AM

For me it's pretty simple. I can think of about 15 quarterbacks I'd rather have in the first 58 minutes of a regular season game. But when the pressure is on, I can't think of any quarterback I'd rather have. There are two to three games a year in which Flacco looks like a complete scrub. There are about 10 games a year when he's league average, a game manager. There are three games a year in which he is absolutely transcendent. And then there are the playoffs, when he has been at another level since the 2012 AFC Championship game, a game which Joe Flacco bears NO responsibility for losing. So all in all, I usually put Flacco around 8th in the league. Anything worse than 13th or so is just ridiculous.

 

My questions are this with regards to the current groupthink on quarterbacks:

 

When did everyone become so convinced Sam Bradford is good? He has shown two things so far in the NFL... diddly and squat.

 

Why do so many writers think Derek Carr and Blake Bortles are better than Teddy Bridgewater? Bridgewater had the best rookie season by far and will only get better. He doesn't throw rockets, but Peyton Manning never did either. I think Bridgewater will become a star before it's all said and done.

 

Ryan Tannehill? Really? Throwing for 4,000 yards doesn't mean jack if the numbers are empty.

 

Of all the franchise quarterbacks, Flacco may have made due with the worst group of weapons over his time in Baltimore. At no point did he have a true go-to guy.

 

Flacco isn't really that hard to figure out. That the national media has yet to do so is embarrassing for them (especially the ones who still think Flacco is immobile).


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#3 esporter

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 08:26 AM

It's shocking to me that we're still having these conversations. I haven't seen national writers and analysts be this flat out wrong about a guy in my entire time as a football fan. A lot of them don't even think he's a good player, let alone great.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've all seen his stinker games (Jags a few years back, last year vs HOU), and yes, we've all seen the clip of him running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, or the one from last year where he let the clock run out instead of throwing it away and costing us a field goal against the Bengals. The media likes to cherry pick him worse than just about any of his peers.

 

Big freaking deal. Mike put it great in the article... if once is an outlier, twice is a fluke, what does it mean when the guy just continues to get the job done, over and over and over and over? 

 

Y'all can have Cam Newton, Tannehill, Bradford, Palmer, Matt Ryan, and all those guys. Unless we're talking about the true elite QBs, give me Flacco every day of the week.


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#4 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 08:28 AM

Going forward, Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck. That's it.

 

If it were 5 years ago, Brady and Manning would obviously be on that list.

 

But shoot, Brady may play longer than Flacco.


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#5 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 08:29 AM

I'd have Luck higher than you had him Mike, but past that I agree with the general overall point.



#6 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 08:34 AM

I'd have Luck higher than you had him Mike, but past that I agree with the general overall point.



I think most would put him higher. Id bet after this season he will be. I just want to see that he improves his decision making in year three, which he probably will.
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#7 Dupin

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 09:27 AM

I think most would put him higher. Id bet after this season he will be. I just want to see that he improves his decision making in year three, which he probably will.


Decision making isn't his problem. More is asked of him than pretty much any other qb. His supporting cast is bad and with a non existent run game and poor defense the onus is really placed on him to make plays.
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#8 Cisc-O's

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 09:30 AM

ehh 4 is a little high for Flacco 6-8 area is a good spot.  Flacco is going to be one of those guys near the end of his career where everyone is saying how did we not see this guy amass these stats?  Where did he come from?  blah blah blah.....He puts up consistent yearly numbers and will be one of the best when all said and done.  With the help of Ozzie putting a winning team around him he will go down most likely as one of the wining-est qbs of all time.


I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.


#9 Dupin

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 09:46 AM

It's insane to rate Wilson that highly. No one is asked to do less at qb in the league. His size has an undeniable effect on his field vision and seems to cause him up bail from the pocket too early.

#10 WillStokes

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 09:55 AM

Good read. I put Flacco around 10 or so in overall quarterback rankings. Probably a little higher if we are  talking about QBs that can win a Super Bowl. I kind of think Ravens fans are too easy on Flacco and national fans just don't get some of the nuances that make him successful. 

 

One point a lot of Ravens fans make that I think is flawed is the argument that because Flacco is good in the playoffs, it doesn't matter that he isn't good in the regular season. The Ravens have one of the best home field advantages in the entire NFL, and not being able to take advantage because of a lackadaisical regular season is a big knock on Flacco. Would the Ravens have beat the Pats in 2011 AFC championship game if they had home field advantage? What if they had home field advantage last year? I think the Ravens would have been in at least two more super bowls in the Flacco era if the team played in the regular season like they played in the playoffs. 


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#11 esporter

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 10:23 AM

Good read. I put Flacco around 10 or so in overall quarterback rankings. Probably a little higher if we are  talking about QBs that can win a Super Bowl. I kind of think Ravens fans are too easy on Flacco and national fans just don't get some of the nuances that make him successful. 

 

One point a lot of Ravens fans make that I think is flawed is the argument that because Flacco is good in the playoffs, it doesn't matter that he isn't good in the regular season. The Ravens have one of the best home field advantages in the entire NFL, and not being able to take advantage because of a lackadaisical regular season is a big knock on Flacco. Would the Ravens have beat the Pats in 2011 AFC championship game if they had home field advantage? What if they had home field advantage last year? I think the Ravens would have been in at least two more super bowls in the Flacco era if the team played in the regular season like they played in the playoffs. 

 

I think that's a good point. You'd really love for he & the coaches to find a way to eliminate the yearly stinker or two, so we could start winning the division and clinching home field more often. It's right within our grasp, but we can't have those meltdowns.


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#12 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 10:55 AM

I think that's a good point. You'd really love for he & the coaches to find a way to eliminate the yearly stinker or two, so we could start winning the division and clinching home field more often. It's right within our grasp, but we can't have those meltdowns.


Even Aaron Rodgers has a stinker or two a year. You could also say if Harbaugh would kick a FG inside the 5 instead of turning over the downs that they would win two more games a year two. We have seen that first hand often be the difference a few times.
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#13 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 11:14 AM

It's insane to rate Wilson that highly. No one is asked to do less at qb in the league. His size has an undeniable effect on his field vision and seems to cause him up bail from the pocket too early.

When I watch him, I only see him flee the pocket when it's necessary, like when he feels pressure. He got pressured more than any other QB last year, and still managed to be accurate under pressure 66.7% of the time. Good for seventh best. Other guys tend to think run before pass like Kaepernick. I don't see that from him.

 

Also, Wilson was third in accuracy on deep passes, and attempted the seventh most in the league. So he can sling it.

 

I don't think height is as much of an issue, when many much taller QBs had more balls batted down. 

 

Add another year of maturity to his previous success, along with adding Jimmy Graham...Wilson should have a monster year.


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#14 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 11:19 AM

ehh 4 is a little high for Flacco 6-8 area is a good spot.  Flacco is going to be one of those guys near the end of his career where everyone is saying how did we not see this guy amass these stats?  Where did he come from?  blah blah blah.....He puts up consistent yearly numbers and will be one of the best when all said and done.  With the help of Ozzie putting a winning team around him he will go down most likely as one of the wining-est qbs of all time.

I could live with 6-8. Personally, I think he and Roethlisberger are about equal, but Roethlisberger has more weapons, and I sure as hell in a close comparison, wasn't going to put a Steeler over Joe. 

 

If someone wanted to re-order my list and put Ben and Luck over Joe, It'd be splitting hairs, and tough to argue with. I put him 4. I could live with 6. I don't have a problem with the MMQB guys giving him 8. 


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#15 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 11:42 AM

Good read. I put Flacco around 10 or so in overall quarterback rankings. Probably a little higher if we are  talking about QBs that can win a Super Bowl. I kind of think Ravens fans are too easy on Flacco and national fans just don't get some of the nuances that make him successful. 

 

One point a lot of Ravens fans make that I think is flawed is the argument that because Flacco is good in the playoffs, it doesn't matter that he isn't good in the regular season. The Ravens have one of the best home field advantages in the entire NFL, and not being able to take advantage because of a lackadaisical regular season is a big knock on Flacco. Would the Ravens have beat the Pats in 2011 AFC championship game if they had home field advantage? What if they had home field advantage last year? I think the Ravens would have been in at least two more super bowls in the Flacco era if the team played in the regular season like they played in the playoffs. 

Thanks Will. 

 

It's obviously very tough to win in the NFL. Baltimore is a great home field advantage. But NE and DEN are right up there too. New England tries to gain an advantage any way possible, so who knows really how dirty they are in doing what they do. We have heard stories of Dean Pees telling Harbaugh not to do certain things because Belichick has eyes and ears planted everywhere. And Denver is tough with the air up there, and Peyton Manning. 

 

If the Pats are without Brady for four games, I would hope they at least go 2-2 without him, 1-3 would be nice. But lets hope that open the door for the Ravens to get one of those top two spots this year. 

 

The Ravens should be winning their division more though. No doubt about that. 


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#16 BSLRobShields

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 12:26 PM

Wilson isn't asked to do a ton but he also has no one to throw it too.
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#17 BSLMikeRandall

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 12:29 PM

Wilson isn't asked to do a ton but he also has no one to throw it too.

Until now.


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#18 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 01:21 PM

It's insane to rate Wilson that highly. No one is asked to do less at qb in the league. His size has an undeniable effect on his field vision and seems to cause him up bail from the pocket too early.

I agree it's crazy to rank Wilson as the 2nd best QB in the league. He does a few things very well, most notably making plays with his feet. He can throw on the run with accuracy and he has a good deep ball. On the flip side he is very limited as a pocket QB. He routinely misses wide open WRs because he doesn't see the field well. He does not navigate the pocket well, instead he bails out and scrambles or will throw from outside the pocket.

If we are talking which QB would I want over the next five years, Wilson would be borderline top 5 for me, but still behind Luck, Rodgers, Flacco, and probably Ryan. I could make an argument for Cam over him.

If we are talking for 2015 only:

1. Rodgers
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Luck
5. Rivers
6. Roethlisberger
7. Flacco
8. Romo
9. Peyton - don't trust health
10. Ryan
11. Wilson
12. Newton
13. Eli
14. Tannehill
15. Stafford
16. Kaepernick
17. A. Smith
18. Cutler
19. Palmer
20. Bradford
21. Dalton
22. Bridgewater
23. Foles
24. RG3
25. G. Smith
26. Bortles
27. Carr
28. Hoyer
29. McCown
30. Manuel
31. Winston
32. Mariota


Once you get to the 24th or 25th QB it's pretty bad.
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#19 BSLGabeFerguson

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 01:24 PM

Wilson isn't asked to do a ton but he also has no one to throw it too.


He had Golden Tate who was awesome last year in Detroit. He had Percy Harvin who was a stud in Minnesota. Doug Baldwin isn't terrible either and he had a 2nd round pick in Paul Richardson. So he hasn't had a great WR corps, but it's not that much different than what Flacco has had to work with for instance.
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#20 Cisc-O's

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Posted 16 July 2015 - 01:42 PM

He had Golden Tate who was awesome last year in Detroit. He had Percy Harvin who was a stud in Minnesota. Doug Baldwin isn't terrible either and he had a 2nd round pick in Paul Richardson. So he hasn't had a great WR corps, but it's not that much different than what Flacco has had to work with for instance.

He had Harvin for 6 games? Maybe less.


I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.





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