192 replies to this topic

[bnickle]

I think the bigger question is, will a bit more risk actually help the Ravens.  With the right coaching you can help Flacco develop, but putting the brakes on the system every time a bad game happens doesn't make us any better.  See our offense in it's current incarnation.

 

I wonder if Harbs is going to turn over his influence on the game plan for this week.  If Joe goes out and has another Buffalo type of game, he may be able to prove his point.  But if Joe explodes and he and Caldwell show some early chemistry perhaps that will be enough to let John move forward with Joe as the offensive center piece.

 

I agree with those saying you don't just hand a guy $120 mill and the handcuff him.  Teach him to be better if you don't think he will be.  Build him up to it.  Write in plays that let him do some of the things you want.  Teach him what to look for, reward him with a more open system if it's not working.  This is all stuff that should have been going on for the last 5 years though.  And if there hasn't been any progression why the hell did we just write this guy the biggest check in franchise history.

Im content with my belief that Joe is just an old school QB. He's not from the new mold. He's not going to be super efficient dinking and dunking down the field. It's not him.

 

 

The completion % is going to be lower  and he's going to get chunk yards to produce offensively. He's going to have games where the final stat line looks ugly. At the same time, Im convinced that he is making it work. That he is the proof that you don't need a new age QB to be successful in the NFL. Go back and look at some of the numbers someone like Elway put up as a QB. They weren't always pretty. He had years with high INt totals. He had years with QB ratings below 80. He also won way more often than he lost. I'm not saying Flacco is John Elway but he's definitely built out of the same mold.

 

 

 

 

The one place where I would really like to see the team try to improve Joe is in the redzone . I think he should be much better down there and he can do a better job and so can the team at playcalling and scheming down there.

 

 

To me that's where a lot of the other QBs really put up numbers that make them look like better QBs. They throw more TDs in the redzone and that raises their passing TD total and things like QBR and QB rating and make them look like they are a better QB on paper.

[primetime]

Im content with my belief that Joe is just an old school QB. He's not from the new mold. He's not going to be super efficient dinking and dunking down the field. It's not him.


The completion % is going to be lower and he's going to get chunk yards to produce offensively. He's going to have games where the final stat line looks ugly. At the same time, Im convinced that he is making it work. That he is the proof that you don't need a new age QB to be successful in the NFL. Go back and look at some of the numbers someone like Elway put up as a QB. They weren't always pretty. He had years with high INt totals. He had years with QB ratings below 80. He also won way more often than he lost. I'm not saying Flacco is John Elway but he's definitely built out of the same mold.




The one place where I would really like to see the team try to improve Joe is in the redzone . I think he should be much better down there and he can do a better job and so can the team at playcalling and scheming down there.


To me that's where a lot of the other QBs really put up numbers that make them look like better QBs. They throw more TDs in the redzone and that raises their passing TD total and things like QBR and QB rating and make them look like they are a better QB on paper.

The red zone stuff comes back to the inability to run the ball and there's not too much Joe can do about that.

Every other team in the league has no problem on 1st and goal going with a 2 TE, 2 back set, hard play fake and an easy pitch and catch to a wide open TE. Yet we never seem to throw on goal to go until 3rd down. Then the defense sends the house and Joe is running for his life. Or worse yet, Vonta Leach running a flat route is the primary read. Ugh.

Last year we actually had a pretty good red zone offense and we're really good in goal to go. It's no coincidence that we ran the ball really well in the red zone.

Joe has had some issues in the red zone but the lack of running game allows the defense to drop 7 or 8 into coverage and it just doesn't leave many places to go with the football.

[JordanKough]

Im content with my belief that Joe is just an old school QB. He's not from the new mold. He's not going to be super efficient dinking and dunking down the field. It's not him.

 

I really respect a lot of your opinions.  I think there are two directions we have to take though on this stance.  

 

If we go with Joe is just an old school QB and there ain't no way around that, you don't go get a big WR.  You don't worry about your WR talent this offseason.  You prioritize Monroe, perhaps you go get that tackle that will leave KC in Albert, or you hope that Wagner is the mauler you wanted or go get a OL in the draft.  You ditch Gino and go find a big starting C, and you bulk up your O-line.  That mean losing Pitta, Jones, Jones, McClain.  You keep Leach, perhaps extend Suggs to make the space.  And you prioritize a running game that fits the power old school whatever.  You don't draft a WR.  And you go find top end speed guys that will take the top off an offense.

 

As an aside, I think is a spot that Harbs and Ozzie have to get on the same page.  You want to be a power team, fine.  Be that.  But don't resign Leach and then not use him.  Don't have 3 TEs on the roster and barely run two tight end sets.  If you want to be a power running team with a QB with a cannon that when you're trailing you let him sling the ball down the field for one drive then do it.  Then do it.  Don't handcuff a guy and then build a system and run 3 WR sets all game, and then be surprised when the outcome isn't what you want.  You can't do anything half way in the NFL.

 

I disagree with you though, strongly and you know that.  I think Joe can learn, and he can do some of those things, I don't think Brady just knows defenses all on his own.  He learned from his coordinators, he was groomed to do all of that.  And it feels like this team doesn't want to actually groom Joe.  They just want to occasionally hand him the keys and when it blows up be like...see you can't do it.  It's a progression.  You gotta teach the man.  You have to believe that Joe liked Zorn because he was probably teaching him.  Helping him learn his strengths and helping him grow from his weaknesses.  And then boom, fired.  You bring in Caldwell and then you don't let him run the system he's always run and you hamstring him with Cameron's system yet again.  Sheesh...

 

Joe isn't an automaton.  He's a smart, very talented QB and I still believe he can learn.  And if he can't be Peyton Manning you train him so he's as close as he possibly can be.  I've seen Joe make smart calls at the line, read defenses and make good touch passes.  He can do all of these things.  But he needs a system, motivation and good coaching to improve on that.  It's clear that he doesn't have that right now.  And whatever or however we need to come to the realization that what we have and what we're doing isn't working, we'll have way more teams that come out looking like they did last week.   

[Hooded Viper]

I am convinced this teams top priorities in the offseason are as follows:

Offensive Coordinator-Not sure who but someone who understands how to take advantage of matchups and schemes to get WR's open.
OT-Need to resign Monroe and draft a RT (Would be even better if Wagner could be the guy.)
Center-would love to get Alex Mack but don't think we have the cap.
Resign Jacoby-Invaluable ST weapon
WR-Either get a top guy to pair with Smith or a quick twitch slot guy. (If they are able to get a good OC then I am not sure this is necessary.

[Ricker Says]

I don't see how anyone could be convinced that Harbaugh is going to go in another direction at OC. I don't see how anyone couldn't be convinced that he won't... because he won't.

[BSLRobShields]

Another name. Just spitballing here. If OKST comes under fire, have to think Mike Gundy would make the leap to the NFL. Much like Tressel, Carroll, and Kelly did. He's got UMD ties as well. Plus, he's a man. He's 40. He's not a kid.

Gundy may get the Texas HC job...he isn't going to be a coordinator IMO.

[Greg Pappas]

The one thing that completely baffles me, and I mean mind-numbingly so, is how often we run on 2nd and ten. Every single game I'm yelling at the TV screen and at Caldwell for the pattern that fools No ONE. If a fan like myself sees our tendencies, you would think the other team knows what we're doing as well. It's laughable.

 

As well, will there be a game where the opponent doesn't drive on us late in the 4th quarter? Can anyone remember a three and out?

[BSLRobShields]

The one thing that completely baffles me, and I mean mind-numbingly so, is how often we run on 2nd and ten. Every single game I'm yelling at the TV screen and at Caldwell for the pattern that fools No ONE. If a fan like myself sees our tendencies, you would think the other team knows what we're doing as well. It's laughable.

 

As well, will there be a game where the opponent doesn't drive on us late in the 4th quarter? Can anyone remember a three and out?

The easiest coaching job, for years in the NFL, is whoever is the DC the week they play the Ravens.

 

The offensive identity for this team has been garbage for years.

[primetime]

The one thing that completely baffles me, and I mean mind-numbingly so, is how often we run on 2nd and ten. Every single game I'm yelling at the TV screen and at Caldwell for the pattern that fools No ONE. If a fan like myself sees our tendencies, you would think the other team knows what we're doing as well. It's laughable.

 

As well, will there be a game where the opponent doesn't drive on us late in the 4th quarter? Can anyone remember a three and out?

 

With the struggles of the offense being pretty much front and center all year, the defensive failures have not gotten as much play as they should, IMO. Look at all the close games that we've played and imagine if the defense could've gotten off the field at a critical point in the 4th qtr, where would we be?

 

In the Green Bay game, we close to within 2 points and get to a 3rd down and 3 or 4, then give up a 53 yd catch and run to Finley. Had we gotten off the field there and only down a FG, I think we almost could've taken that one to the bank.

 

In Pittsburgh, Joe marches us down the field to tie the game with about 2 minutes left. The special teams and defense combine to give it right back to the Steelers. Hell, we might've been better off had the kickoff return stood; then Joe and the offense would gotten the ball back, down 7 with about 1:45 to go.

 

In Cleveland, we couldn't get the great Jason Campbell off the field when it mattered, thwarting any attempt at completing the comeback.

 

Then in Chicago in overtime, Webby gives up the big pass play in OT to set up the game winner. Not to mention the many breakdowns the defense had in the 4th qtr of that game to allow the Bears to take the lead.

 

Of course you can also argue that had the offense executed better in any of the games I mentioned, the defense may not have needed to step up but even in the close wins, there's been defensive breakdowns that have nearly cost us games or made them closer than they needed to be....big play in Miami to set up a game tying FG attempt, hail mary allow vs Cincy, 2 TD drives by the Steelers on Thanksgiving, the craziness in the Vikings game and then the go ahead TD allowed in Detroit.

 

So again, for as maligned as the offense as been, the failure of the defense time and time again in the 4th quarter is just as big of a story for this season.

[Miller192]

I think that both Castillo and Spags are likely to leave.  

 

Here's something that I heard that's interesting.  I really don't know the entire thought behind this idea and can't push much on it:

 

The Ravens might listen to offers on Torrey Smith.  They feel somewhat that they are locked into a certain skill set with their current WR corp and it has limited what they can do.  They really like Marlon Brown and Torrey is probably not going to get the deal he wants in 2015 from the Ravens.  They could focus on Pitta this year and target a playmaker early in the draft.

 

They want to make Jacoby a priority this offseason but I have doubts that he sticks around.

 

They've moved on from Michael Oher but will get Monroe done rather quickly it sounds.

 

Ihedigbo likely won't be back.

[Hooded Viper]

I think that both Castillo and Spags are likely to leave.

Here's something that I heard that's interesting. I really don't know the entire thought behind this idea and can't push much on it:

The Ravens might listen to offers on Torrey Smith. They feel somewhat that they are locked into a certain skill set with their current WR corp and it has limited what they can do. They really like Marlon Brown and Torrey is probably not going to get the deal he wants in 2015 from the Ravens. They could focus on Pitta this year and target a playmaker early in the draft.

They want to make Jacoby a priority this offseason but I have doubts that he sticks around.

They've moved on from Michael Oher but will get Monroe done rather quickly it sounds.

Ihedigbo likely won't be back.

Oh wow, that would be a mistake to let Torrey go. This offense is already lacking in playmakers. He needs a system that would assist him in getting open. I also think Ihedibo should be back. The rest is not too shocking.

[Ricker Says]

Oh wow, that would be a mistake to let Torrey go. This offense is already lacking in playmakers. He needs a system that would assist him in getting open. I also think Ihedibo should be back. The rest is not too shocking.

If this happens, that means that Harbs would rather change players, instead of coordinators to install a fresh system.

[Hooded Viper]

If this happens, that means that Harbs would rather change players, instead of coordinators to install a fresh system.

Yeah which is a mistake. Ozzie needs to give some direction here! Talent is much harder to come by!

[MattJergensen]

Let's not forget the owner's perspective. I will be most interested to hear his "State of the Ravens address". 

 

That said I don't expect much in way of firings though. Castillo and Spags seem obvious choices. Not sure why anyone would say Moeller should be canned when he was neutered all season by Castillo.

 

Interesting thoughts on Torrey's future in Baltimore. The team limited themselves in their roster design which is why so many were concerned with Boldin's departure. Pitta's injury obviously hurt there as well. 

 

The team's inability to run the ball is perhaps the most astonishing thing about this season to me. Fix it.

[bnickle]

Interesting thoughts about Torrey. I tend to believe they'll try to resign him first. See if he'll give a bit of a hometown discount. The guy is explosive. Marlon Brown can't touch that. I'm actually surprised they are as high on Brown as Miller is saying. I mean I like him as a #3 WR put the guy can't separate to save his life and pretty much has to play the slot because of that and a lack of route running.

[BSLRobShields]

Interesting thoughts about Torrey. I tend to believe they'll try to resign him first. See if he'll give a bit of a hometown discount. The guy is explosive. Marlon Brown can't touch that. I'm actually surprised they are as high on Brown as Miller is saying. I mean I like him as a #3 WR put the guy can't separate to save his life and pretty much has to play the slot because of that and a lack of route running.

Brown is further along in year 1 than Smith was IMO...and remember, Brown missed a lot of college time due to injuries, so he is behind in some aspects.

He won't ever have Smiths explosiveness but he does a lot of other things better.

I like Smith but he seems easy to take out of games..now, perhaps that is the fault of the Ravens or perhaps it's his fault. I tend to think it's both. I just can't see giving him a contract that meets or exceeds what Wallace got. Too many holes in his game IMO

And, as that speed starts to decline(and it will at some point), his game will really suffer.

[Ricker Says]

Brown is further along in year 1 than Smith was IMO...and remember, Brown missed a lot of college time due to injuries, so he is behind in some aspects.

He won't ever have Smiths explosiveness but he does a lot of other things better.

I like Smith but he seems easy to take out of games..now, perhaps that is the fault of the Ravens or perhaps it's his fault. I tend to think it's both. I just can't see giving him a contract that meets or exceeds what Wallace got. Too many holes in his game IMO

And, as that speed starts to decline(and it will at some point), his game will really suffer.

 

I think that Caldwell has done a horrendous job at utilizing him as one of our best playmakers, IMO. That's a big part of the problem. The other stuff we've heard about - his route running leaves something to be desired, and he does have some holes, sure... but he should be even better than he's been, which is pretty darn good. This isn't a team that should give him the money he'll demand though. Which sucks, because I love me some Torrey Smith.

[BSLChrisBacon]

I have no evidence to back this up but, as a casual fan, it seems like 75% of Torrey's completions come from a deep throw.

 

That's poorly utilizing his speed, as I, along with others, think he should be used in the short game on slant routes across the middle more. He's even shown success on these plays, adding a lot of yards after the reception.

[Ricker Says]

I have no evidence to back this up but, as a casual fan, it seems like 75% of Torrey's completions come from a deep throw.

 

That's poorly utilizing his speed, as I, along with others, think he should be used in the short game on slant routes across the middle more. He's even shown success on these plays, adding a lot of yards after the reception.

 

It's amazing we ever do anything through the air with as poor as we do in the YAC department. Unreal we still haven't cracked that code. It's pathetic.

[primetime]

It's amazing we ever do anything through the air with as poor as we do in the YAC department. Unreal we still haven't cracked that code. It's pathetic.

 

It's strange because earlier in the year, we saw Torrey on some option routes and some shallow crosses but that seems to have went away. I wonder if that is a function of Torrey still not being a sharp route runner?

 

Either way, considering the poor play of the Oline throughout the year and the number of hits that Joe has taken, I'm dumbfounded by the lack of screens and routes that get the ball out of Joe's hands quicker. We still insist on these long developing routes; deep crossing routes, go routes, etc. With the WRs we have, we should definitely be trying to get the ball to them early; Torrey's breakaway speed, Jacboy's speed and deception, Marlon Brown's size are all factors that could help create YAC.

 

But why do that when you can have your QB get killed by taking hit after hit while he's waiting or three 9 routes and 20 yard dig to develop or running for his life because none of WRs can shake man coverage?