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MASN: Firing Showalter would answer only one of many O’s questions


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#101 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 12:02 PM

2020??? Chris, my man. Come on.

 

I like the pieces which exist. I like the flexibility.  And they'll get pieces back for the parts they are about to trade off.

Doesn't mean it will come together as early as 2020, but wouldn't surprise me at all.


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#102 Mackus

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 12:16 PM

Would be as surprising as 2012, IMO.



#103 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:16 PM

I think the O's could easily field a decent team in 2019 and be playoff contention good in 2020. It all boils down to what they do (or more likely) don't do this summer.



#104 Mackus

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:22 PM

No way, IMO.

 

We can sell off every pending FA vet we have and it own't improve the organization much.  Just aren't getting any difference makers for these guys given their status.  Maybe you get lucky and a fringe top-100 guy turns into a solid star, and maybe the one really good guy (top-50ish) we could get for Manny hits and is an everyday player.  But that's best case.

 

If we trade Manny, Jones, Britton, and Brach I think we get one prospect in the 30-50 range who would become our #2 guy behind Hays, one guy in the 75-100 range who would be top 3-5 in our organization, and then 3-5 more guys who would fall in the Mullins to Stewart range of having a shot at being a contributor, but little chance of an impact player and no guarantee they ever make it.

 

It'd be an improvement, but it wouldn't make me think we are anywhere near being a decent team again.



#105 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:25 PM

What I wrote the other day...

 

 

Let’s say the O’s bottom-out the next few months and they trade Machado, Britton, and Brach. Also eat some salary, and are able to move Trumbo.

 

Without knowing what those players would bring back, you’d have something like the following for ’19:

 

1st: Davis
2nd: Schoop
SS: Beckham
3rd: Mountcastle
C: Sisco
LF: Mancini
CF: Mullins
RF: Hays
DH: Santander

 

Bundy, Gausman, Cobb, Cashner…
 

Givens, Castro, Scott…

 

The acknowledged truth is that the above group is not good enough, when contending is the goal.

Every player is not going to hit their ceiling.

 

Is Davis ever going to rebound?

 

Schoop is only signed through ’19. Still feel like an extension there should be a priority.

 

Beckham would have to go back to SS. At-best he’s an average SS, and we’re still waiting to see what his bat is.

 

Mountcastle is currently hurt, and has to show he can hit AA pitching first.  His glove might never play. Showalter reminded him this Spring, that he has to walk more.

 

Sisco looks like he’s going to hit, there are remaining questions about his defense.

 

Mancini you feel good about as a solid regular at this point.

 

Mullins was a guy that I had previously saw as a 4th OF type. Is he going to be a legitimate option for an everyday role? He apparently has a sub-par arm. What’s the range like?

 

Hays is back at Bowie, refining his offensive game. Like with Mountcastle, Buck also challenged him to show more plate discipline this year.

 

Santander is up with the O’s, filling out the remainder of the time required as a Rule V pick. I like a lot of what we are seeing from him, but you also see that he’s a younger guy, that needs more experience. Once his 45 days are up, I wouldn’t be opposed to him going back to Bowie and getting regular ab’s for several months. Can he go from what he is today, to being a guy you are comfortable with serving as the DH next year? We will see.

 

There are questions everywhere. 

Some of the answers will be good, and some will not.

 

My argument is solely that there are players currently with the organization you can have differing levels of optimism about. 

A lot of cheap contracts, which should give the organization (not matter who is charge) the ability to augment.

 

Watching that group build, and become whatever they might be; might be more enjoyable vs. watching the current group try and hold on to what they were.



#106 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:50 PM

There are some potentially good pieces..but there is likely nothing elite, very little depth and there’s a reliance on everyone hitting. That’s not realistic.

The real key will be if they trade guys, what do you get for them and how well will you allocate the money.

I have zero faith they will use the flexibility correctly. Having flexibility is meaningless if you piss it away.
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#107 bnickle

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:51 PM

Theyll spend money on a Nick Markakis retiremnt tour. Bet on that

#108 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:53 PM

There are some potentially good pieces..but there is likely nothing elite, very little depth and there’s a reliance on everyone hitting. That’s not realistic.

The real key will be if they trade guys, what do you get for them and how well will you allocate the money.

I have zero faith they will use the flexibility correctly. Having flexibility is meaningless if you piss it away.

 

You aren't relying on everyone hitting, and not everyone will. 

 

(You're just giving them the experience and opportunity to see who grabs it.)

There are pieces that potentially can help. Some will, and some won't.

What you do have is payroll flexibility to add around those that are helping.

Doubting the O's do that correctly is fine.  The issues with the organization are strong enough to not have faith there.... but it's a non-zero possibility.


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#109 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:57 PM

I don't see trades as the primary key, because if you make trades... you are talking Machado, Britton, Brach, and Trumbo after you have ate contract.... vs. Schoop (at-least now), Bundy, Gausman, etc.

 

Everything - pieces you have, pieces you add via trade and FA - will play a part.

The keys to me are who is in charge of the organization (probably John at this point)... their mandates.... and who is in charge of Baseball Operations, and under taking the decisions that are going to be needed.



#110 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 02:05 PM

I agree with Chris almost verbatim. Fine to believe the Os Front Office won't execute. Who the hell knows what we're getting. 



#111 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:14 PM

Trea.

Any time you bring up Kim as a defense of your stance you just look worse.

Just some advice that’s all.


But he was 1 for 2 on Tuesday afternoon games against the NL Central. That’s a .500 BA!
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#112 JTrea81

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:07 PM

But he was 1 for 2 on Tuesday afternoon games against the NL Central. That’s a .500 BA!

 

He's now got a line of .312/.396/.548/.944 with 5 HRs and 11 RBI in 29 games in the KBO and has been on base in 21 out of the 23 games thus far getting most of his PAs in the #2 spot with the LG Twins.

 

The guy could always hit.

 

I'll never forget that fans were so biased toward Buck Showalter's views, that they booed him on Opening Day simply because he wanted Buck and the Orioles to honor their contract with him and Buck wanted the Orioles to send him down or send him back to Korea.

 

Then Kim started to hit regularly when he played and forced Showalter to put him in the lineup on a regular basis after Rickard showed he couldn't hit as a regular and also was injured, proving Buck was completely wrong.

 

Buck doesn't like being wrong and Kim paid the price.



#113 Mackus

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:15 PM

And he's playing in Korea because Buck has infiltrated not just our front office but all 29 other teams, convincing them to blackball Kim.
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