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Machado at Shortstop


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#1 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:01 PM

I've seen enough to form an initial impression/opinion. Machado is playing a very deep SS. Sometimes setting up at the edge of the grass and in the OF. He's essentially extending his range by utilizing his arm. Definitely smart, especially considering Manny's ability to come in on balls. Tejada had shit for range and was able to play an effective SS for years doing the same thing with his arm (and Tejada was nowhere near as athletic as Manny is).

The main drawback (aside from a few lazy plays) is the play around second base: covering second and on DP's etc. has been subpar. Bordick has called Manny out several times now for being late covering second. But you have to consider where he's coming from. I'm sure the Orioles understand this (along with the trade-offs and possible adjustments like positioning Manny shallower with men on base and getting his ass to second quicker etc).

I also think Beckham has improved/settled in at third from his initial few games there. Still don't like the switch for numerous reason, but mainly that it will likely yield a negative net value (to be clear, relative to last years configueratiom) imo. That said, Manny may be a better SS than I thought (we still have to play an entire year and see how he holds up, physically and mentally). Will take a look at the numbers in June. (May not mean much then though) 

The overshifts leaving Machado as the de-facto 3B and Beckham to the SS position is also smart. I'm guessing we're the only team in baseball that makes that switch (some do it with the 3B in the 2B position in the OF),


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#2 bnickle

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:26 PM

Its not going to be a net negative but I think there are some good thoughts in this post.

#3 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:30 PM

Its not going to be a net negative but I think there are some good thoughts in this post.

Well, thanks nickle. You're a gentleman and a scholar. 


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#4 RShack

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:03 PM

I've seen enough to form an initial impression/opinion. Machado is playing a very deep SS. Sometimes setting up at the edge of the grass and in the OF. He's essentially extending his range by utilizing his arm. Definitely smart, especially considering Manny's ability to come in on balls. Tejada had shit for range and was able to play an effective SS for years doing the same thing with his arm (and Tejada was nowhere near as athletic as Manny is).

The main drawback (aside from a few lazy plays) is the play around second base: covering second and on DP's etc. has been subpar. Bordick has called Manny out several times now for being late covering second. But you have to consider where he's coming from. I'm sure the Orioles understand this (along with the trade-offs and possible adjustments like positioning Manny shallower with men on base and getting his ass to second quicker etc).

I also think Beckham has improved/settled in at third from his initial few games there. Still don't like the switch for numerous reason, but mainly that it will likely yield a negative net value (to be clear, relative to last years configueratiom) imo. That said, Manny may be a better SS than I thought (we still have to play an entire year and see how he holds up, physically and mentally). Will take a look at the numbers in June. (May not mean much then though) 

The overshifts leaving Machado as the de-facto 3B and Beckham to the SS position is also smart. I'm guessing we're the only team in baseball that makes that switch (some do it with the 3B in the 2B position in the OF),

 

JJ had the perfect mental clock.  He also had all the batters/runners scoped out, just by looking at them.  He'd make'm all run 88 feet before his throw got there.

 

Manny doesn't have either of those.   He hasn't adapted to the speed of the ML game.  I expect he will. 

 

In the meantime, he should make a point of being in a hurry (without hurrying)... better to get there too soon rather than too late...


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#5 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:14 AM

JJ had the perfect mental clock.  He also had all the batters/runners scoped out, just by looking at them.  He'd make'm all run 88 feet before his throw got there.

 

Manny doesn't have either of those.   He hasn't adapted to the speed of the ML game.  I expect he will. 

 

In the meantime, he should make a point of being in a hurry (without hurrying)... better to get there too soon rather than too late...

Based on what? Manny has had the same issue at 3B as he has shown at SS. Sometimes (not often but enough to be an issue) he just gets mentally lazy and takes time he doesn't really have. And the results is he's late to first base. Unfortunately for the pitcher it goes in the books as a base hit. Again, it isn't a huge deal but this isn't something that has cropped up because he is playing SS instead of 3B. Manny is in his 6th full season. He is what he is (which is great) but I highly doubt he is going to "adapt to the speed of the ML game."



#6 JeremyStrain

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:34 AM

Not looking at WHY, but it is interesting that we have so many botched double plays this year. CA Oriole made some great points, especially about Manny being late to the bag because of placement, but I can't help but maybe they just aren't a great double play combo. Maybe part is because of him being late, that will definitely do it, maybe he's having trouble placing the throw to 2nd from that angle vs the angle from 3rd. Think back to all those crazy plays he has made over the years from 3rd, how many of them were to 2nd? All I can picture are the deep throws to first. It might just be the combo isn't the best fit.

 

When I saw them a bunch in AA together, they weren't necessarily at SS and 2B yet. There was some, but Schoop played SS and Manny 3B some of that too, but the double plays with them were kinda rough then too. Admittedly Schoop was much more rough around the edges and his footwork at the time contributed to that, but just struck me as weird that they were having issues again here now.


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#7 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:24 AM

He hasn’t played the position full time since 2012. It’s going to take some time.

He’s better than Hardy in most phases with the exceptions being his around the bag footwork and tagging guys out on steals(JJ was sooo good at that).
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#8 Mackus

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:59 AM

JJ is a high bar to compare anyone to.

 

I think Manny will be a very good, perhaps great, SS.  JJ was a great SS.



#9 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 01:44 PM

He hasn’t played the position full time since 2012. It’s going to take some time.

He’s better than Hardy in most phases with the exceptions being his around the bag footwork and tagging guys out on steals(JJ was sooo good at that).

Fair to say he needs some more adjustment time (one of many reasons for not moving him was this was going to be the case). Steve's point is also fair that this guy will repeat lazy plays, bad habits and lose focus. Can't say that about Hardy. 



#10 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:31 PM

Fair to say he needs some more adjustment time (one of many reasons for not moving him was this was going to be the case). Steve's point is also fair that this guy will repeat lazy plays, bad habits and lose focus. Can't say that about Hardy.


There is definitely a hot dog aspect to Manny that never existed with JJ.

The most underrated aspect to JJ was his consistency. I do question if Manny will ever have that. Not because he can’t but because of his attitude.
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#11 Ricker Says

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 03:52 PM

It's super important to get there just in time, to make it look that much cooler.

I kid, but he is easily the "coolest" fielder I've ever seen play every day.
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#12 Cisc-O's

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 06:52 PM

JJ had the perfect mental clock. He also had all the batters/runners scoped out, just by looking at them. He'd make'm all run 88 feet before his throw got there.

Manny doesn't have either of those. He hasn't adapted to the speed of the ML game. I expect he will.

In the meantime, he should make a point of being in a hurry (without hurrying)... better to get there too soon rather than too late...

Like my range sgt. always said, “slow is smooth, smooth is fast.” Perfect practice, makes you better.

I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.


#13 RShack

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:21 PM

Based on what? 

 

Based on the fact that he's not getting there in time. 

 

This isn't hard to understand... it's only hard to do...


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#14 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:16 PM

Based on the fact that he's not getting there in time. 

 

This isn't hard to understand... it's only hard to do...

So you can use the quote function. Great. How about just answering my question. Since he's been in the majors for five full seasons what makes you think he is going to change his tendency to be late with throws on occasion?



#15 CA-ORIOLE

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:42 PM

So you can use the quote function. Great. How about just answering my question. Since he's been in the majors for five full seasons what makes you think he is going to change his tendency to be late with throws on occasion?

Your expectation is that he will actually read what you wrote and engage in some sort of honest intelligent dialogue with you? 



#16 RShack

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:12 AM

So you can use the quote function. Great. How about just answering my question. Since he's been in the majors for five full seasons what makes you think he is going to change his tendency to be late with throws on occasion?


Maybe my optimistic nature?

Honestly, I see no reason to think Manny cannot adapt well to a position he hasn't played much recently... he certainly adapted to 3B well enough even though he never played it before...

Why on earth would you think he wouldn't adapt? There is no rational basis for this that I am aware of.

 

Now, maybe if you don't like the guy, that might be different. Personally, I'm not crazy about him, but that's not because I don't think he can play a good SS...


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#17 Mackus

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:19 AM

So you can use the quote function. Great. How about just answering my question. Since he's been in the majors for five full seasons what makes you think he is going to change his tendency to be late with throws on occasion?

 

I don't recall him being late with throws from 3B.

 

I think he likes to look good while he plays.  It's a flaw, but it's a relatively minor one, and what he does provide vastly outweighs whatever that vanity takes away.  It has cost him a couple plays at SS so far.  I don't recall it costing him any plays from 3B but there were perhaps a few from time to time.  I think he'll figure out quickly how much time he has to collect himself before needing to make the longer throws from SS after the ball took longer to get to him compared to his old spot.  He likes to hot dog it a bit by on occasion by waiting and firing later, but I think Manny's pride and Buck will combine to make sure that he still gets his outs and that the weird plays where he waits too long and the runner is safe disappear like they did at 3B.



#18 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:43 AM

I have no idea what Steve is even complaining about. Always late with his throws?
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#19 BSLSteveBirrer

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:15 AM

What I said was "Sometimes (not often but enough to be an issue) he just gets mentally lazy and takes time he doesn't really have".  If you don't recall him having done this at 3B so be it. My point was that this minor issue had/has nothing to do with playing SS vs 3B. 

 

But somehow that gets extrapolated to "Always late with his throws".



#20 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:13 AM

MASN: Andrew Stetka: Machado’s move to short still puzzles
http://www.masnsport...ll-puzzles.html






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