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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:23 AM

Yahoo: UNC's widening academic scandal could be test case for NCAA's newfound power
http://sports.yahoo....estigation.html

#2 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

Yahoo: UNC's widening academic scandal could be test case for NCAA's newfound power
http://sports.yahoo....estigation.html


Changing my name to "SBUh-oh".
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#3 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:39 AM

ESPN: UNC hopes to move forward with new probe
http://espn.go.com/b...ng-further-back

#4 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:41 AM

CBS Sports / Doyle: UNC cheated and prospered, now it's time for reckoning
http://www.cbssports...e-for-reckoning

Without knowing much of anything about this, I'm pretty sure I'll either not agree with Doyle, or at the minimum find his comments to be hyperbole.

#5 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 05:53 PM

I haven't paid much attention to this, but if it goes as far back as the days of Julius Peppers....Yikes!

#6 Nuclear Dish

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:14 PM

Doyle is a blowhard. This is NOT an NCAA issue, it's an academic issue.

Yes, athletes were among those who took AFAM courses, but so were non-athletes. There is NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER that this was connected to the athletic department. The most that can be said is that academic advisers for the athletes saw that other athletes had done well in AFAM courses, so they suggested similar courses to others.

Over 50% of the students who took the bogus AFAM courses were non-athletes.

Should there be an independent investigation of the entire AFAM fiasco? Of course, and they've already named former N. Carolina governor Jim Martin to lead it. But the NCAA shouldn't be getting involved until there is some evidence that this was an athletic issue and not one that should be handled at the university level.

Want to read something a bit more evenhanded?

http://www.sbnation.... ... ic-scandal

http://aol.sportingn... ... estigation

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#7 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:28 PM

Doyle is a blowhard. This is NOT an NCAA issue, it's an academic issue.

Yes, athletes were among those who took AFAM courses, but so were non-athletes. There is NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER that this was connected to the athletic department. The most that can be said is that academic advisers for the athletes saw that other athletes had done well in AFAM courses, so they suggested similar courses to others.

Over 50% of the students who took the bogus AFAM courses were non-athletes.

Should there be an independent investigation of the entire AFAM fiasco? Of course, and they've already named former N. Carolina governor Jim Martin to lead it. But the NCAA shouldn't be getting involved until there is some evidence that this was an athletic issue and not one that should be handled at the university level.

Want to read something a bit more evenhanded?

http://www.sbnation.... ... ic-scandal

http://aol.sportingn... ... estigation


At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, based on my stance regarding the NCAA's involvement at Penn State, even if the athletic department wasn't involved in this, wouldn't there be an issue with the academic eligibility of the athletes that took these classes? And wouldn't it then be an NCAA issue?

EDIT: Even if so, my stance is still that you don't fix this by punishing current players that did not take those classes.

#8 Nuclear Dish

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 05:09 PM

So first of all, the vast majority of the players who we are talking about were beyond the NCAA's statute of limitation and have graduated. The few athletes who took such courses recently may or may not be ineligible. The courses were legitimately offered by the university. The university is investigating how such a thing could have happened that an entire department could have been so bogus. It's not like the players received benefits or assistance. And it's not like Jim Harrick giving a ridiculous test either.

Here's another good article to read on this, which also addresses the BS attempts to link Penn State and Carolina. And it's even written by an NC State fan who hates Carolina:

http://acc.blogs.sta... ... obe/?tc=ar

"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax..."

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#9 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

So first of all, the vast majority of the players who we are talking about were beyond the NCAA's statute of limitation and have graduated. The few athletes who took such courses recently may or may not be ineligible. The courses were legitimately offered by the university. The university is investigating how such a thing could have happened that an entire department could have been so bogus. It's not like the players received benefits or assistance. And it's not like Jim Harrick giving a ridiculous test either.

Here's another good article to read on this, which also addresses the BS attempts to link Penn State and Carolina. And it's even written by an NC State fan who hates Carolina:

http://acc.blogs.sta... ... obe/?tc=ar


There is no legitimate basis of comparison between the UNC and PSU situations. While academic fraud is a very serious offense, it's not even in the same ballpark as the crimes committed at PSU. Where the NCAA has jurisdiction is another matter. I'm not suggesting they should hand down or consider more serious punishment for UNC Football, or other athletic programs whose student athletes took these "classes." But to me it is more of a gray area than with PSU just because it potentially impacts the eligibility of student athletes, which is an NCAA issue. Two things from that blog raised my eyebrows.

1) The statute of limitations question. If they can only go back 4 years, then why is Miami being investigated for what Nevin Shaprio did as far back as 2003? My understanding of the rule is that if it is a continuous issue the NCAA can go back as far as the evidence takes them, so long as the most recent incident occurred within 4 years of notice of allegations.

2) This statement from the blogger: "The other involves a group marginal students being steered to classes that involve little or no work in an effort to maintain their athletic eligibility." Who is he alluding to that did the "steering" there? Coaches? If that's the case, then hell yeah it's an NCAA issue.

#10 Nuclear Dish

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:34 AM

No, if they were steered at all, they were steered by academic advisers. Now this, too, has the potential to involve the NCAA, since academic advisers for athletes are part of their jurisdiction. But it's unlikely that they did so with any knowledge that these courses were bogus. They were simply advising the athletes that other athletes had done well in these courses, so they might consider taking them too.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that athletes specifically were being steered to these courses. The fact that more than 50% of the enrollment in the courses was from non-athletes indicates that it was getting around to everyone that these were easy A's, and therefore good courses to enroll in. Athletes are no different than any other students when it comes to seeking easy A's.

Yes, you are correct that if they can find a continuous pattern of fraud from within the past four years back to whenever it began, the NCAA can investigate and punish for it. However, there is even less evidence of current players being steered toward these courses than there is of players in the distant past. There are exceedingly few AFAM majors compared to what there once were. For example, in the basketball team, there hasn't been an AFAM major since Mike Copeland in 2009, and there hasn't been a single one since Roy Williams began recruiting for Carolina.

Keep in mind, too, that this is not a football issue - it's an academic issue that also might include the entire athletic department. The student athletes who enrolled in these courses come from all sports, not just football. While this might lead to an indication of institutional loss of control, it's more likely that it points to an academic issue that only tangentially touched on athletics.

"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax..."

-Walter Sobchak


#11 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:40 PM

CBS Sports: Tar heels cleared of academic scandal by NCAA .. for now
http://www.cbssports...r-heels-cleared

#12 Nuclear Dish

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:35 AM

CBS Sports: Tar heels cleared of academic scandal by NCAA .. for now
http://www.cbssports...r-heels-cleared


I hate to say I told y'all so, but...

It's an academic issue, not an athletic one. Just keep repeating that.

"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax..."

-Walter Sobchak


#13 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:06 PM

CBS Sports: Time has run out on the NCAA to give benefit of the doubt to UNC
http://www.cbssports...-north-carolina

#14 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:34 AM

ESPN: McCants says he took sham classes

http://espn.go.com/e...ok-sham-classes

 

Rashad McCants, the second-leading scorer on the North Carolina basketball team that won the 2004-05 national title, told ESPN's "Outside the Lines" that tutors wrote his term papers, he rarely went to class for about half his time at UNC, and he remained able to play largely because he took bogus classes designed to keep athletes academically eligible.

McCants told "Outside the Lines" that he could have been academically ineligible to play during the championship season had he not been provided the assistance. Further, he said head basketball coach Roy Williams knew about the "paper-class" system at UNC. The so-called paper classes didn't require students to go to class; rather, students were required to submit only one term paper to receive a grade.

 

McCants also told "Outside the Lines" that he even made the Dean's List in Spring 2005 despite not attending any of his four classes for which he received straight-A grades. He said advisers and tutors who worked with the basketball program steered him to take the paper classes within the African-American Studies program.



#15 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:50 AM

Sad what people with an ax to grind will do for a little fame...


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#16 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:55 AM

Sad what people with an ax to grind will do for a little fame...

 

I would expect many colleges would like this story to die. This can't be something just happening at UNC.

More exposure this story gets, we will see others come forward from elsewhere.



#17 BSLMichaelWeber

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:55 AM

Sad what people with an ax to grind will do for a little fame...

 

But what if it's true?



#18 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:57 AM

But what if it's true?

I'm sure there are parts of it that are true..

 

A ton of people have already discredited McCants on twitter..Great to see Julius Hodge stepping up for the enemy.

 

LeVelle MotonVerified account ‏@LeVelleMoton
Whenever an athlete with entitlement comes up short of their dreams, they will throw any and every one who knew them under the bus....

 

@Follow24Hodge: As much as I delight in minimal anguish for UNC.. This dude McCants is a certified "nut job". Anyone who knows him know that #dontbelievehim

 

Julius Hodge ‏@Follow24Hodge 5m
@BDAHT he a real punk for this. All for attention. I didn't see the interview and I KNOW he lying. That's who he is.

 

John Henson ‏@_John_Henson_ 2m
That boy is certified bonkers.

 

John Henson @_John_Henson_ · 1m
Crazy that someone so disreputable would try to tarnish something so special.

 

Dexter Strickland ‏@DStrick01 2m
It's sad how people will do anything for notoriety!

 

Kareem Martin ‏@reemthedream_95 15m
Every week it seems like an athlete comes out and bashes the University, blaming everybody but themselves.

 


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#19 BSLRobShields

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:24 AM

I think its naïve to think the football program was doing stuff but the basketball program wasn't.

 

HOWEVER, who gives a damn?  This is so dumb to even bring up IMO.

 

It happens everywhere...just deal with it and move on.

 

UNC shouldn't get anything thrown at them but they could.


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#20 BSLSethBondroff

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:26 AM

I think its naïve to think the football program was doing stuff but the basketball program wasn't.

 

HOWEVER, who gives a damn?  This is so dumb to even bring up IMO.

 

It happens everywhere...just deal with it and move on.

 

UNC shouldn't get anything thrown at them but they could.

If they take away the 2005 title, someone better check on Antoine. 


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