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Rosenthal on Brady's role with the team


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#1 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:11 AM

http://www.foxsports...f-debate-032017


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#2 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:30 AM

Oh boy. Lil Ken is at it again.

 

It's ultimately a fair article but one where you feel like he's going out of his way to create friction where there is probably just the normal workplace stuff that goes on everywhere. And that's not surprising given Ken's history with this organization.


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#3 Mackus

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

Good article, tries to be fair to both sides.  Seems like only the former pitching coach(es) have an overt problem with how Brady tended to meddle with some guys.  And even then, it was more about presenting a united front, not that they think Brady was intentionally undermining them or had bad suggestions.


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#4 bnickle

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:42 AM

Specifically about Brady there are positive and negative things to take away from that article. The overall thing to take away is that there remains no real structure within management. We all knew that. That's just unacceptable.

#5 Mackus

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:45 AM

There isn't anything inherently wrong about a matrix power structure as long as there is still someone ultimately around to make final decisions.  Seems like that works out ok from the GM standpoint, Brady and Showalter have influence but Duquette makes the final calls (for better or worse).  The coaching aspect of what Brady does seems a bit more muddled, if major and minor league players are getting contrary advice and don't know exactly who to follow.



#6 bnickle

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:55 AM

There is clearly dysfunction. Again, not anything new but simply confirmed. DD, Brady, and Buck all talk well of each other publically but I think it's pretty clear all have problems with each other.  Brady is trying to be a player, coach, and GM. Buck is trying to be the manager and GM and DD is trying to just keep any power as GM. Power struggle all the way around. One thing is pretty clear IMO. DD is out after 2018. 



#7 BSLReggieYinger

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:09 AM

It's true. All of it..and even was the case with Rick Peterson.


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#8 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:13 AM

Few things:

 

1) Why do we continue to have off the field issues with our pitching coaches?

 

2) The Angelos family has got to get out of this organization.  They are a cancer.

 

3) I like Brady a lot and think he could be a GM but he's its pretty apparent that the idea of separating the players as friends/peers and them seeing you as a boss is something he hasn't figured out.  If you want to be part of the clubhouse, deal with coaching, nutrition, strength and conditioning..so be it.  

 

But if you want to be a GM, get out of the clubhouse, show these guys respect but don't try to be their friends.

 

4) Going back to #2...this organization is still a mess.

 

I think there is a lot of positive stuff in the article and I do think Wallace/Chiti have some sour grapes and probably aren't taking accountability for some things but overall, the idea that they still lack structure and "who do you go to" is pretty bad.  


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#9 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:15 AM

I fully believe Brady is a huge asset to the team but I don't know if I am crazy about Brady working with pitchers, regardless of what Arrieta has to say about him. And I don't care if Brady was a pitcher in HS and college.

 

He can work with them for strength and conditioning, sure, but let the pitching coaches work on pitching mechanics.

 

Obviously that is where there has been friction -- Brady working with pitchers. How many pitching coaches are going to leave before we get that worked out?

 

We've always said there seems to be no organizational philosophy when it comes to pitching. And Brady may very well be the reason for that.



#10 Coker

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:21 AM

It's true. All of it..and even was the case with Rick Peterson.



Interesting...Is this one of the reasons Peterson left?

We knew about his seemingly troubled relationship with Buck, but never heard a peep about Brady.

#11 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:21 AM

I fully believe Brady is a huge asset to the team but I don't know if I am crazy about Brady working with pitchers, regardless of what Arrieta has to say about him. And I don't care if Brady was a pitcher in HS and college.

 

He can work with them for strength and conditioning, sure, but let the pitching coaches work on pitching mechanics.

 

Obviously that is where there has been friction -- Brady working with pitchers. How many pitching coaches are going to leave before we get that worked out?

 

We've always said there seems to be no organizational philosophy when it comes to pitching. And Brady may very well be the reason for that.

I don't agree with that...that has been a problem for 20+ years.

 

The problem with it is PA just needs one guy that he loves to differ from the people who should be in charge of it and he will listen to them over the expert.

 

Mike Flanagan was the guy who should have been put in charge of everything.  He knew pitching.  He understood what you need to do on that side of the game.  He had PAs ear and he was well respected throughout the game.

 

Instead of making him the Co-GM, a role he was never suited for, he should have been put in charge of the entire organization when it comes to developing pitching.  

 

But again, end of the day...everything goes back to the top.  PA is a complete and total nightmare.  Its great that they have won the last 5 years but until he, and likely his family, are gone, I will never feel secure about the long term of this organization.


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#12 BSLReggieYinger

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:24 AM

Interesting...Is this one of the reasons Peterson left?

We knew about his seemingly troubled relationship with Buck, but never heard a peep about Brady.

 

Peterson was in the same bucket - doing whatever he wanted and under-minding the coaches at the different levels. Ultimately, they are both Duq guys and were heavily protected from being "questioned" - you will not hear a peep about BA until he leaves OR Duq cans him.



#13 BSLSeanJester

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:24 AM

I don't agree with that...that has been a problem for 20+ years.

 

The problem with it is PA just needs one guy that he loves to differ from the people who should be in charge of it and he will listen to them over the expert.

 

Mike Flanagan was the guy who should have been put in charge of everything.  He knew pitching.  He understood what you need to do on that side of the game.  He had PAs ear and he was well respected throughout the game.

 

Instead of making him the Co-GM, a role he was never suited for, he should have been put in charge of the entire organization when it comes to developing pitching.  

 

But again, end of the day...everything goes back to the top.  PA is a complete and total nightmare.  Its great that they have won the last 5 years but until he, and likely his family, are gone, I will never feel secure about the long term of this organization.

 

I think some of that is true but I can see how Brady is complicating the pitching development process.



#14 Coker

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:26 AM

Interesting...Is this one of the reasons Peterson left?


We knew about his seemingly troubled relationship with Buck, but never heard a peep about Brady.


Peterson was in the same bucket - doing whatever he wanted and under-minding the coaches at the different levels. Ultimately, they are both Duq guys and were heavily protected from being "questioned" - you will not hear a peep about BA until he leaves OR Duq cans him.


And to think...We all used to be worried about the Stockstills running the organization. Same dysfunction as always

;)

Edit: But really, that's interesting. Seems like Peterson doing his own thing and going AGAINST the MiL staff was alluded to and talked about numerous times. Do you think the Wasdin hiring was more of a 'group' effort? I know DD, Buck and McDowell all have experience with him.

#15 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:34 AM

I think some of that is true but I can see how Brady is complicating the pitching development process.

Sure, that's very possible.  I am just saying that this isn't a new problem.


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#16 Miller192

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:13 AM

I thought it was a good article.

 

My concern was that there didn't seem to be any clear answer to who Brady answers to.  


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#17 Mackus

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

I thought it was a good article.

 

My concern was that there didn't seem to be any clear answer to who Brady answers to.  

 

I think it's pretty clear that it's Angelos.  He'll take direction from Duquette or Buck or others depending on what they are asking, but Angelos is the only guy who could tell Brady to back off if there is significant disagreement between Brady and someone else.


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#18 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:04 AM

I think it's pretty clear that it's Angelos.  He'll take direction from Duquette or Buck or others depending on what they are asking, but Angelos is the only guy who could tell Brady to back off if there is significant disagreement between Brady and someone else.

Well said.

 

I think the bigger issue is, who is beneath Brady, who reports to him, what role does he actually have, etc...

 

I have to say though...I respect the hell out of Brady.  The impression to take from this article is that he is clearly a hustler.  He wants to learn about everything.  He will do what is asked and what needs to be done.

 

You want those types of people in your organization but he also needs to know when not to take things too far.  There is a fine line between meddling and helping.


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#19 Mackus

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

The big disagreement that appears to be the basis for the article sounds like Brady (and Mike Wright) felt that Wright's development was being hindered or even derailed by Wallace and Chiti.  Not intentionally, but the advice and coaching that Wallace/Chiti gave to Wright seemed to be taken poorly by him and caused him to lose confidence.  And that sounds like it rubbed Brady very raw and he then got involved and got aggressively defensive on Wright's behalf. 

 

Everybody is working towards the same goal, so that's good, but every athlete is different and perhaps where Wallace/Chiti felt Wright needed some tough love to get his act together while Brady felt they stepped too far.  Neither approach is necessarily right or wrong, but the outward butting of heads by the coaching staff (and whatever Brady qualifies as) with a young player left in the middle is definitely a problem.

 

I can definitely see how Brady's roving rover role can be detrimental or at least obnoxious to the coaches who are fulltime dedicated to one aspect, like pitching.  Especially if they feel that Brady is less qualified than them and his advice is running counter to theirs.  However, I don't really see how that would be too terribly different from how they would feel if we had a designated "Pitching Coordinator" who oversaw them and were doing similar things.



#20 BSLRobShields

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:27 AM

The big disagreement that appears to be the basis for the article sounds like Brady (and Mike Wright) felt that Wright's development was being hindered or even derailed by Wallace and Chiti.  Not intentionally, but the advice and coaching that Wallace/Chiti gave to Wright seemed to be taken poorly by him and caused him to lose confidence.  And that sounds like it rubbed Brady very raw and he then got involved and got aggressively defensive on Wright's behalf. 

 

Everybody is working towards the same goal, so that's good, but every athlete is different and perhaps where Wallace/Chiti felt Wright needed some tough love to get his act together while Brady felt they stepped too far.  Neither approach is necessarily right or wrong, but the outward butting of heads by the coaching staff (and whatever Brady qualifies as) with a young player left in the middle is definitely a problem.

 

I can definitely see how Brady's roving rover role can be detrimental or at least obnoxious to the coaches who are fulltime dedicated to one aspect, like pitching.  Especially if they feel that Brady is less qualified than them and his advice is running counter to theirs.  However, I don't really see how that would be too terribly different from how they would feel if we had a designated "Pitching Coordinator" who oversaw them and were doing similar things.

One thing you can take away from what you are saying is that perhaps Brady had a better read on Wright and his mental outlook.


Sometimes, another voice isn't a bad thing.


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