Photo

Tennis Thread


  • Please log in to reply
256 replies to this topic

#41 bnickle

bnickle

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,275 posts

Posted 13 July 2015 - 09:03 PM


Serena has also dealt with injuries/health issues as well as depression.

We've established that. Graf was as dominant, probably more, over her career considering it was shorter. It's a matter of competition and the impossible task of trying to match the two up in their prime that is tough. It's a very close and good debate.

#42 BSLMichaelWeber

BSLMichaelWeber

    BSL Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,167 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 13 July 2015 - 09:09 PM



Serena has also dealt with injuries/health issues as well as depression.
We've established that. Graf was as dominant, probably more, over her career considering it was shorter. It's a matter of competition and the impossible task of trying to match the two up in their prime that is tough. It's a very close and good debate.


If Seles doesn't get stabbed are we even having this conversation?

#43 RampageBassoon

RampageBassoon

    Token Female Poster

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 652 posts

Posted 13 July 2015 - 09:10 PM

Serena has also dealt with injuries/health issues as well as depression.
We've established that. Graf was as dominant, probably more, over her career considering it was shorter. It's a matter of competition and the impossible task of trying to match the two up in their prime that is tough. It's a very close and good debate.
Indeed its a good debate. I will say that I obviously have never seen Graf play live but my dad did want to name me after her since she was super dominant at the time I was born. But anyway in the end we may never be able to know what the outcome would be if the two played one another. I think Serena is a strong favorite to win at least 3-5 more gs titles before her age catches up to her. Right now there isn't consistent competition but a steady amount of good challengers to come her way. I love how in the final Serena used her opponents height against her. Normally being 6'1" would be a good advantage but Serena was able to consistently hit the ball to her feet and close to her body where she would have a hard time. That was the best part about the match imo
  • bnickle likes this

#44 bnickle

bnickle

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,275 posts

Posted 13 July 2015 - 09:12 PM

That was essentially the same time Graf was going through her personal issues too. The Seles stabbing is overblown to some degree in Grafs dominance. Graf wasn't at the top of her game either when Seles was #1.

#45 bnickle

bnickle

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,275 posts

Posted 13 July 2015 - 09:19 PM

Also, you can't assume or know how long Seles was going to continue to play at such a high level. Maybe she had 6 months of elite level play in her or 6 years. Have no idea.



#46 BSLMichaelWeber

BSLMichaelWeber

    BSL Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,167 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 13 July 2015 - 10:10 PM

Also, you can't assume or know how long Seles was going to continue to play at such a high level. Maybe she had 6 months of elite level play in here or 6 years. Have no idea.



Sure, we don't know. But I don't see how the she retired early card can weigh more heavily than the Seles stabbing. And if you're going to take personal issues into account, well that's part of why Serena hasn't won more as well.

#47 bnickle

bnickle

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,275 posts

Posted 13 July 2015 - 10:21 PM

You take everything into account. Like I said, it's an interesting debate. I believe that both in their prime is an amazing matchup. It seems you and Kelly don't believe that's true. It sounds like you both believe Serena is the better, more dominant player. I'm just saying you need to slow down going full throttle on that.

#48 BSLMichaelWeber

BSLMichaelWeber

    BSL Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,167 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 14 July 2015 - 12:22 AM

You take everything into account. Like I said, it's an interesting debate. I believe that both in their prime is an amazing matchup. It seems you and Kelly don't believe that's true. It sounds like you both believe Serena is the better, more dominant player. I'm just saying you need to slow down going full throttle on that.



I'm not saying anything regarding if they played as I would have to go back and watch Graf to refresh my memory.

But I do think that when measuring their careers without doing a deep dive here, that the circumstances don't favor Graf to where I would give her the edge assuming Serena passes her in grand slams.

#49 bnickle

bnickle

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,275 posts

Posted 14 July 2015 - 01:47 AM

It's still debatable if Serena passes her. Graf had better overall competition. Beginning of her career Navratilova was still around. Seles did dominate for awhile. Hingis stormed in in the late 90's when Graf was finishing up.  I feel like Serena hasn't really had any other great player playing during her era. Sharapova as a rival?? Really?? Justine Henin?? Venus??Very good players, but nothing elite. The big thing the last few years in womens tennis was why isn't there anyone really stepping up here. How is Caroline Wozniacki, a little counter puncher who isn't a huge Major's threat the #1 player. Serena is certainly benefiting right now from a lack of any real competition and yes, its because no one else is really that good. You play who's put in front of you. I get that, but a few extra titles isnt going to change my opinion much.  Graf had a better peak, higher winning %. All against better competition. 



#50 BSLRobShields

BSLRobShields

    Sr. Orioles Analyst

  • Moderators
  • 66,104 posts
  • LocationBaltimore

Posted 14 July 2015 - 06:19 AM

Serena's health issues as re the only seeing this even a debate...otherwise, he probably has 30 titles and it's not close.

That being said, the argument can be made that Graf had the better career because of her own dominance and the competition being better....but she's not a better player. Serena would just be too powerful for her.
@BSLRobShields

#51 Nigel Tufnel

Nigel Tufnel

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,071 posts

Posted 14 July 2015 - 07:57 AM

Serena would just be too powerful for her.

 

I don't know - Graf was a power player for her time, and it's not like she's tiny - she's actually taller than Serena (although it's not her height that makes Serena so physically intimidating).  But it's just impossible to say for sure, because of the difference in racket technology between now and 20 years ago.

 

They actually played twice in 1999, Graf's last year and the year Serena won her first major, and they each won once.

 

But in a lot of ways, Serena is Steffi 2.0, so I'd probably go with Serena, just not by a landslide.



#52 Ricker Says

Ricker Says

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 39,960 posts
  • LocationGermantown, MD

Posted 14 July 2015 - 08:10 AM

Could be wrong, but wasn't Venus supposed to be better? Crazy how things turn out sometimes.
@0TheRick0 (AKA The Rick)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." ~ The Earl of Baltimore

#53 bnickle

bnickle

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34,275 posts

Posted 14 July 2015 - 08:28 AM

Yeah, Graf was a beast. It's not like Serena just smashes people left and right. It's tennis, it's about matchups and then if you're close in skill, it's about whether you bring your A or B or C game on a particular day. Graf would hold her own. She isn't quite as physically impossing, but she's arguably the better athlete.

#54 BSLMichaelWeber

BSLMichaelWeber

    BSL Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,167 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 14 July 2015 - 10:52 AM

Could be wrong, but wasn't Venus supposed to be better? Crazy how things turn out sometimes.



Venus was a great player too. I think there was strong competition early in Serena's career, but not as much so lately. I think the competition may be overrated a bit in Graf's career because she beat some big names early, but players that were nowhere near their peak. And again, her biggest rival, someone who was absolutely dominating her and all of tennis (won 7 of the last 8 grand slams she had entered) was stabbed in the back on the court, was out 2 years, and never truly recovered. Half of Graf's titles came after the stabbing.

#55 RShack

RShack

    http://tinyurl.com/fake-news-BS

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,552 posts

Posted 14 July 2015 - 03:44 PM

Ted Williams or Barry Bonds?  (Same basic thing...)


 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#56 McNulty

McNulty

    la cerveza está muy fría

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,415 posts
  • LocationBS

Posted 31 August 2015 - 07:37 PM

Very excited to go to the US Open on Wednesday.  Bought the grounds pass for $70.  


  • BSLMichaelWeber likes this

@fuzydunlop


#57 BSLMichaelWeber

BSLMichaelWeber

    BSL Analyst

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,167 posts
  • LocationRidgely's Delight

Posted 31 August 2015 - 08:36 PM

Living Social has been offering ticket deals. Kelly and I were tempted, but not the best time for us with school starting.

#58 Nigel Tufnel

Nigel Tufnel

    MVP

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,071 posts

Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:05 AM

I went a couple of years ago - I bought stadium tickets for the night session, but I remember thinking that a grounds pass for the early rounds would be the way to go.  We walked around for a couple of hours before the night matches started, and it's amazing how close you can get to the players on some of the outer courts.  I remember watching Wawrinka play Karlovic on an outer court that probably only had seating for a few hundred people.  That's way, way better than the stadium, and in the early rounds, you can see big name players on the smaller courts.

 

Just bring lots of sunscreen, because there's no shade anywhere.



#59 fishteacher

fishteacher

    Your Mom's Favorite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,500 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:02 PM

Anyone watching the Murray/Kyrgios match?!  Holy shit, this dude is a super-moron!  Freakin' McEnroe is roasting this dude!  

 

He's like hte Dennis Rodman of tennis w/ the antics, but without the talent.


I'm here to do two things...chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubblegum. ~ Roddy Piper
@therealjfisher

#60 McNulty

McNulty

    la cerveza está muy fría

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,415 posts
  • LocationBS

Posted 05 September 2015 - 12:35 AM

I know most of you are asleep but that Nadal/Fognini match was one of the best I've seen.


@fuzydunlop





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sponsors