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#21 McNulty

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:04 PM

Is that the longest difference between first and last (so far) in history? I looked up the usual suspects and doesn't look like anyone has come close to that.

 

Shit, Hingis had one longer than her just today.  It wasn't in singles but still.  I'd be curious too.


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#22 RampageBassoon

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 09:54 PM

She's been very good for a very long time. She was number 1 in the world in 2002.
Won her first major in 1999.
Is that the longest difference between first and last (so far) in history? I looked up the usual suspects and doesn't look like anyone has come close to that.
I believe so. They showed stats comparing her to Graf yesterday. Graf won no majors in her 30s and won a handful more than Serena in her 20s. Despite her being nearly 34 and past her optimal athletic prime, she is in her prime now in terms of mentally, focus-wise, and in her commitment to training and excellence.
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#23 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 10:14 AM

Hell of a match so far today.

Get the feeling that whoever can win a break wins this match.
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#24 BSLRobShields

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 10:16 AM

...and Djoker just got a break.
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#25 bnickle

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 10:27 AM

Djokovic should have won the 2nd set. Holding this break in the 3rd will be huge.

#26 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 10:29 AM

Freakin rain

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#27 bnickle

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 10:50 AM

I love Djoker. He's become so mentally tough. He's the rare type that when he messes up and gets pissed off at himself it makes him stronger.

#28 bnickle

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 11:28 AM

Beast.

#29 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 08:18 AM

I believe so. They showed stats comparing her to Graf yesterday. Graf won no majors in her 30s and won a handful more than Serena in her 20s. Despite her being nearly 34 and past her optimal athletic prime, she is in her prime now in terms of mentally, focus-wise, and in her commitment to training and excellence.

 

Graf retired young, though - she only played in one major after turning 30, and she made the finals.

 

The other thing to remember about Graf - her main rival in the second half of her career was Monica Seles, and Seles actually had the upper hand...  until a German guy stabbed Seles during a match and completely derailed her career.  Had that not happened, it's hard to believe that Graf gets to 21 grand slams.  However, Steffi had won the calendar Grand Slam 5 years before the Seles stabbing.


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#30 bnickle

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

Graf was just as dominant as Williams. More consistent. If she plays into her 30s she probably wins 2-3 more. It's not like she fell off a cliff.

#31 BSLRobShields

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 01:54 PM

I would also argue Graf faces better competition.

That being said, I think Serena's power beats her more times than not.
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#32 bnickle

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 02:06 PM

Graf was powerful too. Amazing forehand, probably better than Serena's. If they are both in their primes, it's an amazing matchup.

#33 RampageBassoon

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:49 PM

Graf was just as dominant as Williams. More consistent. If she plays into her 30s she probably wins 2-3 more. It's not like she fell off a cliff.

She did play into her 30s and did fall off like a cliff. Serena is more powerful, hands down. You can say what you want about primes and Serena should have won more in her 20s and all that but it's pretty undisputed that Serena has the fastest serve, the most powerful forehand, and a really dominant backhand

#34 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:51 PM

She did play into her 30s and did fall off like a cliff. 

 

I'm just going by Wikipedia, but Graf turned 30 in June 1999 and retired two months later, in August.  In between, she made the Wimbledon finals.

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Steffi_Graf



#35 RampageBassoon

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:53 PM

She did play into her 30s and did fall off like a cliff. 
  I'm just going by Wikipedia, but Graf turned 30 in June 1999 and retired two months later, in August.  In between, she made the Wimbledon finals.   https://en.wikipedia...iki/Steffi_Graf
You're right. My bad

#36 BSLMichaelWeber

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:04 PM

She did only win one grand slam in her final three years so I'm not sure it should be assumed she would have added more at an age where grand slams are scarce.

Regarding competition, I think it was Nigel that pointed out how significant the stabbing of Seles was, who was dominant at the time. Graf then regained the #1 spot and racked up a lot of wins. I think that's the more important what if to play with her compared to if she lengthened her career.

#37 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:04 PM

I don't know if anybody else saw this, but during the Wimbledon studio coverage, Darren Cahill and Brad Gilbert made the point that both Serena and Graf were/are great athletes (as compared to somebody like Sharapova, who's just really good at tennis).

 

They told a story about how Graf used to train by running 400m intervals on a track.  The German Olympic track coach happened to see her once, and timed her... and her times could have put her on Germany's Olympic relay team.

 

It's really hard to compare different generations in tennis, because the racket technology keeps advancing, and the surfaces have become so similar.  I think tennis is clearly being played at its highest level ever right now, but that doesn't mean that past players, given access to today's equipment, couldn't have competed with today's players.



#38 bnickle

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 08:28 PM


She did play into her 30s and did fall off like a cliff. Serena is more powerful, hands down. You can say what you want about primes and Serena should have won more in her 20s and all that but it's pretty undisputed that Serena has the fastest serve, the most powerful forehand, and a really dominant backhand

Kelly, I'm playing my old man card here. I remember Graf. She was powerful and dominant. She also had some injury and other issues in her life. Her dad, who she was close with and I believe her coach, went to jail in the middle of her career and threw her off for a few years. When Graf was on she was just as scary as Serena.

#39 bnickle

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 08:30 PM

I'm just going by Wikipedia, but Graf turned 30 in June 1999 and retired two months later, in August. In between, she made the Wimbledon finals.

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Steffi_Graf

She retired at 30 still ranked 3rd and coming off the French Open title and Winmbleton finals. She may not have won another title. Hingis was starting to dominate and there were some other good players. I would have bet on her winning another one though.

#40 BSLMichaelWeber

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 08:50 PM



She did play into her 30s and did fall off like a cliff. Serena is more powerful, hands down. You can say what you want about primes and Serena should have won more in her 20s and all that but it's pretty undisputed that Serena has the fastest serve, the most powerful forehand, and a really dominant backhand
Kelly, I'm playing my old man card here. I remember Graf. She was powerful and dominant. She also had some injury and other issues in her life. Her dad, who she was close with and I believe her coach, went to jail in the middle of her career and threw her off for a few years. When Graf was on she was just as scary as Serena.


Serena has also dealt with injuries/health issues as well as depression.




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