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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:01 AM

EDIT: Obviously not a player, but think the discussion on Showalter fits here.


Occasionally I get bothered by a tactical decision Showalter makes, but I think that happens in all sports with whoever is in charge.

There are always going to be game decisions, where you question strategy.

One of the things I really respect with Showalter, is that I believe he has always done his homework and has rationale for his moves. I might disagree, but I can usually appreciate Showalter's POV.

I think we have seen that Showalter regularly takes a longer term approach, as opposed to the game being played that day. He wants to win every game played, but he is also thinking about next week.

When he was hired, one concern I had about him, was that I was worried he was going to burn out fairly quickly. I remember thinking he was going to be an option for 3 yrs and less. Maybe help lay a foundation with his preparation, and turn things over to someone else. Perhaps because he is older, and has been through things in several previous stops, we are seeing no signs of him burning out.

He is doing an excellent job of not getting too high or too low. He is a steadying influence, who given the O's confidence that can play with anyone. You can see the focus the team has on winning series, which to me is a pretty strong barometer of a team focus. Showalter also gets high marks for me for his relations with the media. I don't know how he was in Arizona, and Texas; but I imagine New York (even in the early 90s) was a pressure cooker with all of their media. His time at ESPN probably improved his skills with dealing with the Press.

One of the ways he projects confidence through the Press, is his consistency of actions. The O's win a good game, he reminds of the game coming tomorrow. The O's lose a tough game, he talks about coming back tomorrow. You can see that he demands accountability from his players, but you also see that he never buries his team through the Press. There is nothing he is saying in public, that he has not told the individual players directly first.

He really is an asset for the organization, and I'd love to see him have an extended stay here in Baltimore.
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#2 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:07 AM

I agree, he's not as good as he seemed in his first half season but carries a presence that the team seems to respect. It would be nice to have someone around awhile to create some stability.
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#3 Mike B

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:24 AM

I think Buck is the first real manager we have had since Davey Johnson. He is confident and consistent in how he does things and as you mentioned manages for the long haul. The way he protects the BP is amazing. If the pen is still dealing this way in September it will because Buck did not burn them out as managers in the past have done. The 17 inning Boston game made a believer of me. He decided he would rather lose that game than stretch pitchers out past their levels. Even then he had a reason for choosing Davis. He pitched in college. How many guys making quick decisons would even know that. He obviously had thought of this scenario beforehand

He is not afraid to do things others before him would not do. Example Chris Davis in RF.

As far as his in game moves, I think he is solid. baseball is a game made for second guessing and even the best managers, will anger their fans at least a couple of times a week.

The Orioles have had buzzards luck for a long time, but IMO that started to change when Bobby Valentine turned us down and we instead focused on Buck Showalter. Buck is a very good manager.
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#4 Oriole85

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:31 AM

Occasionally I get bothered by a tactical decision Showalter makes, but I think that happens in all sports with whoever is in charge.

There are always going to be game decisions, where you question strategy.

One of the things I really respect with Showalter, is that I believe he has always done his homework and has rationale for his moves. I might disagree, but I can usually appreciate Showalter's POV.

I agree that you're not always going to agree with everything a manager or coach does. Buck has pointed out in interviews and I think this is important to note, that he makes decisions based on information we aren't privy to. I noticed a lot of people criticize him when they bunt esp sac bunting, the ultimate antithesis of Earl, I think that's just philosophical disagreement, don't think one approach is necessarily right or wrong(playing for the big inning being the other option).
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#5 RShack

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 02:02 PM

He integrates a big picture view of the ML club and its players with attention to the smallest and most complicated details. That's hard to do. It proves that (a) he knows baseball, and (b) he's a very smart guy. Lots of smart people can't integrate things at multiple levels like that.

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  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#6 tpjs1

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 06:29 PM

One of the things that jumps out to me about Showalter is the easy, comfortable, confident manner in which he interacts with his players.

During today's (Sunday) game with Atlanta, there was a shot of him sitting between Hammel and Matusz having a conversation. It is this ability to communicate with his players, even while there is no doubt who is in charge, that sets him apart from many managers.

The players know how prepared he is and you are seeing it rub off on them. This may not be the most talented team, but Buck is getting the most out of them.

When he chose to play Davis in right field, all one could hope is that it wouldn't cost a run at a crucial point. It's only a few games, but Davis has been an asset instead of a liability. Give credit to Davis, but give Buck a nod too.

I hope he stays around for a long time...
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#7 DBean

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:17 PM

When he was hired, one concern I had about him, was that I was worried he was going to burn out fairly quickly. I remember thinking he was going to be an option for 3 yrs and less. Maybe help lay a foundation with his preparation, and turn things over to someone else. Perhaps because he is older, and has been through things in several previous stops, we are seeing no signs of him burning out.

I wondered how he only stayed with Arizona and Texas for a couple of years.

What I like most about Showalter, other than his constant professionalism, is when he was offered the job as manager, he contacted Johnny Oates's family and asked them if it is okay to use Oates's number. I always thought that was classy of him to do. He really didn't have to do that.
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#8 Ricker Says

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 07:55 PM

One of the things that jumps out to me about Showalter is the easy, comfortable, confident manner in which he interacts with his players.

During today's (Sunday) game with Atlanta, there was a shot of him sitting between Hammel and Matusz having a conversation. It is this ability to communicate with his players, even while there is no doubt who is in charge, that sets him apart from many managers.

The players know how prepared he is and you are seeing it rub off on them. This may not be the most talented team, but Buck is getting the most out of them.

When he chose to play Davis in right field, all one could hope is that it wouldn't cost a run at a crucial point. It's only a few games, but Davis has been an asset instead of a liability. Give credit to Davis, but give Buck a nod too.

I hope he stays around for a long time...


I agree with all of this. The players tend to speak about Buck with such admiration and respect. While they didn't bad mouth previous skippers, they also didn't praise them like they do Buck.

He is the epitome of preparation.
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#9 Ovechkin8

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 08:06 PM

One of the things that always bothers me about fans is they want the manager to manage every game like it's the World series. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet and let the starter pitch longer to rest the pen or let a lesser reliever pitch the 8th or 9th to save your setup guy and closer. Sometimes you need to lose the battle to win the war. Also a major part of managing is managing egos and putting guys into questionable situations to show them you have their back and are willing to give them a chance to screw up.
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#10 Ovechkin8

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

Buck has not lived up to his rep. He's much more of a player's manager than he was advertised. Supposedly he wears out his welcome quickly and we've seen the opposite here.
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#11 glenn__davis

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:53 PM

Buck has not lived up to his rep. He's much more of a player's manager than he was advertised. Supposedly he wears out his welcome quickly and we've seen the opposite here.


Yep, I've made that point since he was hired. I remember everyone thought he was going to come in here kicking butt and taking names. He really hasn't been that way and all.

It will be interesting to see if he changes if the team keeps winning games and expectations change. Will the pressure cause him to go back to those ways? Or has he learned from previous experience how hard is too hard to push?
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#12 RZNJ

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:55 PM

Buck's done a great job. I don't think anyone disputes that. But he's not above criticism either. We could have maybe had a chance for a sweep if he PH's for Matusz in the 6th on Friday night. The situation called for it. I believe in the big picture. I also believe that PH for Matusz the other night was the best short term move with little negative consequences for the big picture.
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#13 BSLRobShields

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:22 PM

I don't think he is anything special in terms of in game moves. But he does have a good personality and attitude for the job..better than most and in many ways, that is more important than anything.
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#14 Oriole85

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:47 PM

One of the things that always bothers me about fans is they want the manager to manage every game like it's the World series. Sometimes you need to bite the bullet and let the starter pitch longer to rest the pen or let a lesser reliever pitch the 8th or 9th to save your setup guy and closer. Sometimes you need to lose the battle to win the war. Also a major part of managing is managing egos and putting guys into questionable situations to show them you have their back and are willing to give them a chance to screw up.

Agreed, managing is a lot harder than fans realize. You can't manage every game like it's the 7th game of the World Series. Sometimes starters have to go another inning than they should because the 'pen has been taxed. Along those lines, you don't want to overuse relievers so the "best option" won't necessarily always go.
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#15 RShack

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:51 PM

Buck's done a great job. I don't think anyone disputes that. But he's not above criticism either. We could have maybe had a chance for a sweep if he PH's for Matusz in the 6th on Friday night. The situation called for it. I believe in the big picture. I also believe that PH for Matusz the other night was the best short term move with little negative consequences for the big picture.

Yeah, but there's never been a manager who lived who you couldn't find something like that to disagree with... it's just the nature of the job. I never heard anybody suggest that a manager, any manager, was above criticism. Earl sure wasn't, but nobody cares about that stuff about him now.

 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#16 Oriole85

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 10:53 PM

Buck's done a great job. I don't think anyone disputes that. But he's not above criticism either. We could have maybe had a chance for a sweep if he PH's for Matusz in the 6th on Friday night. The situation called for it. I believe in the big picture. I also believe that PH for Matusz the other night was the best short term move with little negative consequences for the big picture.

Is anyone perfect?
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#17 RShack

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 11:12 PM

Buck has not lived up to his rep. He's much more of a player's manager than he was advertised. Supposedly he wears out his welcome quickly and we've seen the opposite here.

Well, that kinda depends on what you think his rep was. I'm no expert on the guy, but I did want the O's to get him from before DT was fired (but after it was pretty clear DT was gonna be fired). I didn't expect him to come in here and start raising hell about everything, or pissing off players, or anything like that.

My expectation was that he'd take charge of the situation and not put up with any crap, and I think he's done that.. but that doesn't mean that he had to PO players to do it, he just had to be in charge, that's all. I also expected him to sweat all kinds of details, and to stick his nose into every corner there was to stick his nose into, and I think he's done that. As for wearing out his welcome, I think the way that happened before was that he just would not take no for an answer from the folks higher up the food chain than he was, and after a while they just got fed up with it. And the closer he got to succeeding, the harder he pushed, and he just managed (heh heh) to get himself fired for reasons that had zilch to do with being a good manager. It's not like players quit on him or anything like that.

I was watching as close as I could about him and AM, and then about him and DD. Now, nobody knows what happens behind closed doors, I certainly don't, but it seems like he's able to get on the same page with those guys. But he's not been close to succeeding yet. AFAIK, if the old pattern holds, then when he's likely to become a real PITA is if/when the O's get close enough to the WS that he can taste it. That's when he'll start digging in his heels and being insistent about getting his way about every little thing.

But that's only if he's just the same as he was. I kinda figure he's not the same... he's older, he's seen his own movie a couple times and probably has some insight about how he helped himself get axed before. By the time you get into your 50's, you're supposed to have learned something about how to not be a knucklehead, and I expect that he has... but we'll see. So far, I just don't think he's yet had the same kind of situational opportunities to get himself fired the way he did before. Wait til the O's win 90 games or so, and let's see what happens then...

 "You say you've lost your faith, but that's not where its at.

  You have no faith to lose, and ya know it" - Bob Dylan


#18 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:54 PM

PressBox: Showalter worthy of Manager of the Year
http://www.pressboxo...log.cfm?id=4993

#19 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:17 PM

WNST: Joe Lemire, Sports Illustrated on Showalter (Audio)
http://wnst.net/audi...lines with Drew

#20 DBean

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:39 PM

Saw this video on MLB Fan Cave and thought it was mildly amusing. Got to enjoy having a manager that is willing to have fun with his players. I'm sure that the winning has made Showalter become more relaxed.

http://mlbfancave.ml...bid=3oDI7fZ-VeY
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